Mark Thomas, Executive Vice President of Marketing and Alliances at Ridecell, talks about the importance of digital transformation for fleet-based businesses, how embarking on such an important journey can positively impact fleet operations and how harnessing the power of driver and vehicle data helps to create more strategic and sustainable plans to improve productivity, security and the bottom line.
https://ridecell.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ridecell/
https://twitter.com/ridecell
Mark Thomas, Executive Vice President of Marketing and Alliances at Ridecell, talks about the importance of digital transformation for fleet-based businesses, how embarking on such an important journey can positively impact fleet operations and how harnessing the power of driver and vehicle data helps to create more strategic and sustainable plans to improve productivity, security and the bottom line.
https://ridecell.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/ridecell/
https://twitter.com/ridecell
Stacey Papp:
Welcome to the Mile Marker Podcast. My name is Stacey Papp, and I will be your guide, taking you on a journey into the world of fleet automation and shared mobility, focusing on innovations for businesses with fleets. Joining me today is Mark Thomas, Executive Vice President of Marketing and Alliances at Ridecell. Throughout Mark's extensive career, he's lent his passion for cars and the internet to educating consumers about mobility and how connected vehicles can truly change the world. Today he joins us to talk about the importance of digital transformation, and its impact on fleet based businesses around the world. Mark, welcome. It is so great to have you here.
Mark Thomas:
Well, thank you so much, Stacey. It's great to be here.
Stacey Papp:
Absolutely. So let's just jump right into a topic that's really important, and we've heard the word, phrase rather, digital transformation a lot lately, regardless of business or industry. What does that phrase mean to fleet based businesses?
Mark Thomas:
I think to understand what digital transformation means, it does seem like a complex topic, but the reality is it's rather straightforward. It's about using the latest technology to improve your processes, and improve your customer interactions by applying digital technologies to make things run better. I mean, it's how companies like the industry like a hotel, we've all gotten used to digital transformations. Back in the day, hotels used to issue you an actual key to the room, a little blade key that you had a big keychain on it, and something that you'd take to the room. Generally, they only gave you one.
So if you had two guests, you had to share it amongst yourselves, and oftentimes they're worried about losing them, so you had to leave it with the receptionist. And then when you came back to go back to your room, you had to wait in line to try to get your key again. Certainly nobody longed for the days of having physical room keys. Today, the process is so much simpler. When you check in, they just give you a key card that's digitally assigned, and if you lose it, they'll make you another one. It's cheap, it's effective, it's something that's more efficient for the hotel industry, and something that's certainly more convenient for customers. And that's exactly the kind of example that we're seeing that fleets can now use to establish a digital transformation.
Stacey Papp:
So I hate to date myself here and I don't remember a hotel key so much as I remember being a middle schooler riding the bus with a house key in a book bag. And I remember my mom always saying to me, "Don't you dare lose that key," because there were so many implications attached to a lost key. So a 13 year old loses a key, they don't think anything of it, but it's their parents who are like, "Somebody could find that key, find this house, and potentially get into it." I would assume there's some sort of fear when it comes to fleets and physical keys as well. And I don't want to spoil what your upcoming responses would be, but I would assume the digitization of that key is really pivotal when it comes to fleet transformations.
Mark Thomas:
Yeah, you bring back some PTSD from my youth too, where I had to cut lawns for three months for all the neighbors to pay for having the entire house re-keyed, because I dropped our key in the stands at a football game. So definitely, and sure enough, kind of like the hotels, my dad attached the next key to a two by four that I had to get from the backyard, and he was sure that I was not going to ever be able to take that with me. So it's interesting. So we have gotten to the point where with hotels, we just expect that they will have card keys that are issued to us that are cheap. In vehicles, there's still that incredibly expensive physical key, and it's tied to the car, and there really aren't access controls except if you count maybe the valet key that you keep in your glove box, which lets people only drive at half speed, or maybe not open the trunk.
But beyond that, essentially anybody with the key has the rights to take and use that vehicle. If the key's lost, that's an expensive replacement, if the key is left inside the vehicle and the doors are locked, that's also an expensive situation because then you'll have to deal with a locksmith or a lockout situation. So for fleets, there's this belief that a keyless system is primarily only of relevance to companies like a Zipcar or Gig or one of those car sharing companies where people will use cars by the minute. And when you talk to somebody and say, "Hey, I have one driver and they have a key to their vehicle there," what problem are you solving? My driver likes having the key to the vehicle. But when you think about what happens when you move the key to the cloud, that's when the digital transformation can really start to change, in the same way that the hotels going keyless completely change the experience for those customers. So really, the act of moving the key to the cloud is the basis for some really incredible transformations that can take place in the fleet industries.
Stacey Papp:
So I think you touched a little bit on this when we started talking about the digitization of the key, which I know we'll talk about a little bit more. So spoiler alert for everybody listening, but really the importance on embarking on a digital transformation journey for fleets is becoming more prevalent. Why? What's the impetus behind that? What's your opinion on why it's becoming more important for fleets to take this on?
Mark Thomas:
Certainly, Stacey. A couple different factors are taking place. The first is that companies have more and more fleet management systems that they are putting into their fleets. At first, it was just a simple dongle or connectivity system that tracked where the vehicle is, GPS tracking and a fleet management system that made sense of all that. But then when you start adding in cameras that are doing cabin monitoring, and monitoring the traffic out front, and information that's coming from the cam bus that's telling the vehicle state, and then you're hiring companies that give you not only reactive maintenance recommendations, but proactive, or prognostics that let you fix errors before they occur. As you get this kind of richness and proliferation of systems that are going into vehicles that the fleet managers are now all having to look at and manage, there is an overwhelming amount of information.
And so the first generation of fleet management systems is systems that take raw information like video camera information, watching what a driver does, and then turns that into insights like distracted driving, using a cell phone, or even impaired driving, that those systems then send alerts to a fleet manager with what's happening real time. Other systems can check the state of the vehicle, and if there's a check engine light, say there's low tire pressure, that information is also being presented in a dashboard, or if it's urgent, it's being sent as a notification. And so suddenly fleet management professionals are having to look in lots and lots of different places to figure out what's going on with their fleet. There is no single source of truth, and there certainly now starts to become an overwhelming amount of notifications, and things that require action. So the next phase of the digital transformation of fleets goes beyond turning data into insights. And now the next phase is turning those fleet insights into triggers for automated workflows.
A lot of the things that are being discovered and reported for the safety and the condition of the fleet, like hey, there's no washer fluid, or the tire pressure's low, those things can then have very simple automated resolution that says, rather than tell somebody that there's an issue, and then that person goes and finds the vendor, schedules the appointment, why don't you just have the system know who's capable to make that repair, or make that change, and then issue them a job order with the location of the vehicle, and with the VIN number, and the description of what parts they need to bring.
So if it's an outside vendor that takes care of cracked windshields, they'll know where the vehicle is, they'll know what windshield to bring because they'll get an automatic notification with make, year, and model, and they won't even have to meet anybody, because that vendor will get a digital key transferred to them that gives them access rights to the cabin so that they can take the windshield out and put the new one in, and maybe calibrate any automated sensors that are required. And then the driver that's normally supposed to use that vehicle gets a new digital key issued to them over the air with a location for where their backup van is. And so all of this can take place without any fleet manager having to step in and do anything manually.
Stacey Papp:
Which then really allows them to focus on the stuff that matters, right. So meeting those targets, which it sounds like from what you're explaining from the automation of workflows and triggers, you can meet targets a little bit more succinctly, so that fleet managers then can focus on the bigger stuff. So if they're having a cost issue, that they can then tie back to we are not doing any predictive maintenance, we need help with that, this is then where something like a digital transformation combined with an automation solution would come in, right?
Mark Thomas:
Yeah, you're absolutely right. The digital transformation initiatives aren't just about improving your maintenance processes. When you look at some of the goals that companies have now ahead of them, there are a whole raft of ESG goals, so that understanding how they're going to replace their conventional gas and diesel vehicles with electric vehicles, there's a whole new process and complexity associated with them. Having the ability for those vehicles to become more interchangeable becomes really important. Having the digital key concept, meaning drivers get assigned the best vehicle for the job, not the vehicle that they drove yesterday. And then when you start to understand that you need to figure out how you're going to get more done, to achieve margin rates that are increasingly being pressured to get higher and higher. So that means doing more with less, making your people more efficient. And then finally, employee satisfaction is one of those things that also becomes really important today.
Recruiting and retaining your drivers, really, really important. If you have a system or a tool that makes their lives better. And so it means that if they don't have to go in, turn on the vehicle, see there's a check engine light, and then go hand somebody the keys, go get a different vehicle, make sure that that one's okay, then load it up with their personal kit. Those are all things that are frustrating. And more often than not, they'll just take the broken vehicle anyhow if it drives. So having a system where the drivers get a better vehicle, having a system that ensures there's more reliability of those vehicles, because partially unsafe vehicles aren't taken on the road, means then customers start to experience the benefit of this. Because it means that that deliveries aren't missed because of broken vehicles, there's more predictability, and there's more efficiency in getting the job done. So it really is about finding ways to do more with less, to make people's jobs more satisfying, let them focus on doing their job and doing the parts that are less mundane, and still effectively do more.
Stacey Papp:
So you touched on a lot of pain points that I'm sure our listeners are going, "Yes, that's me, that's happened to me," or, "All of the things that you just mentioned are what float through my head and keep me up at night or wake me up at 3:00 AM." Is there a specific event or trigger that you would say would kickstart a digital transformation for a fleet, or any specific mile marker, no pun intended, to say, "Yes, this is when we need to take some action in the form of digitization."?
Mark Thomas:
Every company that has fleets needs to be thinking about the next generation of their digital transformation. Technology moves forward and either as a company you embrace the technologies that give you the advantage, or you lose out to the competitor who is. And so I believe that a lot of companies are gridlocked because they're worried and thinking that a digital transformation is reminiscent of their ERP implementation that took tens of millions of dollars. A bunch of systems integrators and consultants that came in didn't understand their business, were very expensive, and put in some monstrous system that was a monolith that required everything to be changed. That is exactly the opposite approach of a modern digital transformation journey. Today, the recommendation, and this is from a number of Harvard Business Review case studies about companies that have been successful, the recommendation is start with a known problem and digitize that problem. And when you then successfully implement a digital shift, you can then take that as a basis to move forward with the next phase, or seeing adjunct or adjacent opportunities.
We see this with companies that have motor pools today that use keys, or a key lockbox. So a simple solution to avoid the problem of, "Hey, people didn't return the key," or the key lockbox, we still have keys that get lost, is to go keyless. And when they go keyless, they have the ability to take a process that has far more advanced reservations, that lets people dynamically check out a vehicle. And then once that system's in place, companies are finding that there's additional benefits, benefits like when somebody returns the vehicle and it's in the return area, and the system detects that the vehicle's been stopped and they exited the vehicle five minutes ago. And if they forgot to lock it, you can use the system to auto lock. Simple, but especially when vehicles and pools are parked in public streets, just having that auto lock capability suddenly saves in vandalism, saves in maintenance issues, really can change the entire experience of managing that fleet.
When you do a larger style digital transformation, we have a customer that's using us to get rid of or enhance the experience of renting a vehicle, by allowing people to rent the vehicle using an app. Download an app, take a picture of themself, take a picture of their driver's license, a picture of their credit card, and within minutes it provisions them to be able to rent vehicles. And then with these kind of systems in place, customers have a benefit because they don't have to wait in line to get their vehicle, or return their vehicle because again, you can just take some pictures of the outside, and it will make the return experience very easy. But there then becomes some additional benefits like the ability to know that hey, the authorized driver for that vehicle has not unlocked or entered the vehicle, yet we're detecting that it's moving.
That's a vehicle that you can immediately know is either being stolen, or is being towed for being parked illegally. But you can have somebody on that immediately. And because there is more robust security with keyless technology than with keys, anybody with the key can get in and drive the vehicle, but when it's keyless, it has to be the particular individual who has that authorization for that period of time. And if that individual isn't there, you can even embed some deeper kinds of immobilization that mean those vehicles not only can be detected if they're being stolen, but you have another layer of protection that ensures that they most likely can't be stolen unless somebody hooks them up to a tow truck.
Stacey Papp:
You made that sound really simple. I think when you start at the very beginning and said everybody has that spine tingling moment where they've, that ERP implementation, and people go, oh no. That just seems like such an arduous task. It's very laborious, it's many months if not years. And I think what you just explained did a really beautiful job of simplifying. Start with a problem that you know need to solve for. And I think that of everybody out there that might be listening, for those folks who may not think it's that simple, what would a benefit of a digital transformation be to those people who are saying, "This is still going to take a lot of work, Mark. I can't believe that this is just as simple as find a solution and solve, or find a problem, rather, and solve it." What would you say would be a benefit to convince maybe the late adopters to the journey?
Mark Thomas:
Yeah, the benefits come in a number of ways. So if the digital transformation takes your existing systems, be it fleet management systems, internal IT systems, your CRM system or even your vendor's IT systems, and connects them all, what you do is you can start to build these automated workflows that will help you increase the efficiency of your fleet, so it's going to get used more, increase the productivity of your workers, increase the employee and customer satisfaction. So you end up with all kinds of benefits just by adding some additional technology, that ties the things that you already have together in a way that really focuses on creating some automated workflows, so that the systems are able to get more done by themselves.
Stacey Papp:
I know you've been a part of a lot of conversations that have customer and prospect facing. So when you get in the room and you guys start talking about this digital transformation, when the question comes up of what kind of support is needed, how do you answer that from your point of view? This seems like a big task, and we're trying to make the complex simple, but who can champion something like this through the process? So it maybe lacks bureaucracy, but still gets to the heart of the matter of, you're still trying to solve a challenge that's still causing some issues for your fleet?
Mark Thomas:
I think if you position digital transformation as something that will make your fleet managers more efficient, you're missing the point of the digital transformation. So the digital transformation initiatives need to be essentially at the C level, because the CMO is going to be championing the new business models and revenue models that you can get out of doing this. If you're a business where the business of the vehicles is the business itself, like a car sharing or a rental company business, as the CMO, I want to be able to put my vehicles where the customers are. I don't want them to have to come to my depots to get them. Let's say the dorms are moving out on a certain week. If you could just move a bunch of your vans and pick up trucks there, and let the students use the QR code on the side to download the app, provision themselves, use it for their move, and then drop it off at a different location, that's an example of being able to increase demand, increase consumption, and create new revenue streams.
If you're a company whose business uses vehicles as a part of another greater mission, and that vehicles or vehicle fleets are part of your business, but they're not the business. Let's say you're an e-commerce company with delivery vans, if you make those delivery vans more reliable, you make the driver experience more enjoyable, then what you get is a better customer experience, because packages are delivered predictably. If a van is loaded up and then has to be changed out because something's wrong, and that it wasn't detected automatically, that's when you have the situation where somebody's not going to get their package, and that's disappointing. So having the ability to create better consumer experiences really is one of the big driving forces.
And then having the other benefits of, "Hey, we can actually save costs while creating a better experience. I don't need six people at the counter checking in every single person, I can have people check themselves in." And once you realize that these digital models are not just digital representations of what exists today, they're better. For instance, if you're at the rental counter and you're renting a vehicle, you hand them your driver's license, what does the person do? Well, they hold it up, they look at you, they look at the picture and they look at the expiration date and they go, "Okay, yeah." That's it.
Stacey Papp:
Super safe, right?
Mark Thomas:
Now in reality, that driver's license can be suspended. That person can be on an FBI watch list. If you do this digitally, you have the ability to check their driving record, and you can set stringent things that then say, "I'm sorry, but we don't rent to people who have that many points, or have a DUI, and we're not going to let you take a box truck and risk people's lives." So you can enforce much tighter controls once you move to a digitized experience. So again, it's not just better for the customer, it's cheaper for the company, and it's safer for everybody. And those are the kinds of things that you look for when you are looking to apply the latest generation of technology to your business.
Stacey Papp:
So it sounds like this is not only an efficiency improvement, but also you talked about something really important when you mentioned driver verification. That's also a safety issue. That's something that people don't think when they rent a car that, "Yeah, I am who I am," and you get in the car and you're good to go. But there's a huge safety component to what you're talking about from a digital transformation as well.
Mark Thomas:
Yeah, it's safety, it's compliance. Having a system that the driver has to authenticate themselves before they start the vehicles means that vehicles that are being used for commercial purposes can limit those drivers to only those that are pre-authorized. In today's world, you just hand somebody the key, they get in, they drive, the compliance officer has no controls, the safety officer doesn't know what's going on, who's behind the wheel. So these are things that you can really put in additional layers of control, especially when it comes to people taking safer vehicles.
Because today the check engine light being on does not limit the ability for that vehicle to be driven. In the future, with a system that is keyless, if the system detects that the check engine light is on, it can automatically disable the vehicle, immobilize it, certainly not while it's driving, but before the person takes the vehicle, and then can assign them a different one that doesn't have any issues. So the ability to keep just the vehicles that are roadworthy on the road is an important piece of a digital transformation for all kinds of businesses, not just those that rent their vehicles.
Stacey Papp:
So I'll share with you, I had a little bit of a scary moment on my last trip to the airport. So I live about an hour from our local airport, and I take a car service because usually the flights are pretty early in the morning and no one's out and about. For me, it's a safety thing. And I happen to get in the backseat. It was a Lincoln town car, and I noticed the check engine light was on, and in my mind, I start calculating backwards from when my flight's about to take off, it's an hour to the airport and that check engine light is on, and the entire way is a freeway drive. What happens if the car just stops, right, or something happens as I'm on the way to the airport to catch a flight that has a departure time that's certainly not going to wait for me? So I can sympathize in that realm to say that's terrifying, to know that you're driving or riding in a vehicle, that it kind of has an expiration date.
Mark Thomas:
Yeah. And I think what you're pointing out too is that there are definitely unintended consequences of some of these issues, and the fact of a customer seeing the issue when you're in the vehicle means that it's a much less enjoyable and far more worrisome ride. Those are things that will improve the quality of a rider's experience.
Stacey Papp:
Yeah, I mean, I'm not a big fan of flying, but I was never so happy to get to the airport and think, "Okay, we're here, we're good." But I want to touch on something that you mentioned earlier when you talked about automating and triggering workflows. And I think a lot of that, if not 100% of that, is really dedicated to a fleet automation solution. So can you give us some idea on how using a fleet automation solution aids in a digital transformation journey?
Mark Thomas:
I would be happy to. Yeah. I've talked a lot about the keyless side, and keyless is a tool that makes workflow automations incredibly powerful. So we talked about fleet management systems today take raw data and turn them into insights. And those insights today end up on a dashboard, or as a notification, or an email to do something. An automation system can be listening to multiple different systems, and then if it's a condition that it knows about, it can dispatch the automated workflow for whatever it is that happens to be wrong. So we talked about the windshield crack. So many vendors have a system where the drivers fill out the driver vehicle inspection reports, or the EDVRs, and they say cracked windshield. As soon as that information hits the back end, the notification, that vehicle gets shut down and a notification to the windshield repair shop can be scheduled with the right VIN information, year, make, and model.
And so that essentially will save somebody the time to have to make those phone calls. And so when you look at automations, you start to characterize them in two categories. One, automation is great for routine, boring, methodical tasks. The computer never gets bored. The computer has the ability to automatically inspect somebody's calendar, and put up and reserve the right time slot for the vehicle to get fixed. And so by automating the things that are routine and boring, it frees up the fleet manager to focus on things that are more complex, and frequently more interesting than just the humdrum part of the job. The other thing that automation's really good at is taking absolutely time critical issues and immediately issuing a response. So if the system detects that an airbag event just went off, that notification can immediately dispatch an ambulance. It can dispatch a tow truck.
It can automatically initiate a phone call that connects the fleet manager to the driver to see if everything's okay. If the situation is detecting some other situation, like the in cabin monitoring is detecting distracted driving, or worse, drunk driving, that system can immediately just set an alert or sound to the driver, and a voice command to tell them to pull over. And when they do, the immobilizer, the system knows when the vehicle is stopped, and the immobilizer can then be automatically triggered so that that person can no longer continue to drive and keep going. If this were a system where there was a dispatcher at lunch, taking a break, not watching the dashboard, precious minutes would go by. And as you know, if somebody's in danger, with an accident, those minutes really, really count. So automating things that are both incredibly boring and routine, or have a huge sense of time immediacy, urgency, and risk if there isn't an immediate response, are both characteristics of things that are ripe to be automated.
Stacey Papp:
So I want to dive a little bit deeper into what you had said about fleet automation replacing some of those mundane tasks. And we all have them. You have them, I have them. There's certain things that we wish we could just erase from our days at our careers, and we would be so much happier. But is there a concern that having a fleet automation solution would eventually replace people, or is it more of a looking at it differently, and reframing it to say it becomes a digital member of the team?
Mark Thomas:
The automation category is not new. There's a category for white collar workers called RPA, remote process automation, where there are companies that create digital assistants, digital employees, that allow the white collar employees to essentially set up these routines that take the mundane part of their job away. And initially there was the belief that, "Oh, I'm a highly paid worker, none of what I can do can be automated because I have an important job." And then when you realize that there are actually a third of our jobs that are quite routine, filling in expense reports, travel, a lot of reporting, those are things that people have found ways to automate. And one of the lessons learned from the RPA industry is that when you tell people that you're going to automate a part of their job, there's a bunch of hesitancy.
When you explain that you're going to give these people some digital employees to manage, and that you're going to let them do all the grunt work, it's a completely different attitude. It's like, "Yeah, I told you I need a team, now you're giving me one." So it really is just about how do you position it, letting these people understand that they can help write and control what those automations are. And it's been incredibly successful in the enterprise businesses to help automate and make more productive the white collar workers in businesses. And yet this same concept really hasn't reached the fleet companies yet. And so here's an example where technology from an adjacent industry can be applied, truly to make people's lives more enjoyable, to make their employee's sat higher, and give them people to manage when they may not have a budget for more employees.
Stacey Papp:
So it's basically a reallocation, right? It's not a replacement. It would just be taking those resources and putting them to where they matter most.
Mark Thomas:
Yeah, it's letting people set up the automated workflows where they take their expertise in how they do their job, and they find the areas where it's boring, it's routine, it's mundane, it's difficult, and have those things automatically done for them. That's a gift that any employee would want to receive.
Stacey Papp:
I think you mentioned in a conversation you and I had offline, the hospitality industry did something like that, right? With, was it citizenM Hotel, I think they replaced their receptionists, and not replaced them, so to speak, but reallocated them to be other key staff members, to really make the guest experience elevated.
Mark Thomas:
When you walk into a citizenM Hotel, they've taken digital transformation one step further. And we talked about hotels having card keys that are issued to individuals, but now you check in online when you go there, there's the terminal waiting for you. It's a little bit like self-checkout at the grocery store. You take a stack of blank cards, you put it on the card maker, and you then get access to your room. You can pick any upgrades, choose whatever meals you want, and all of that is done without needing to wait in a line, try to figure out which is the best line, line game theory, is that person moving, when do they get here? None of that, because terminals are cheap, so there's lots of them. And if you do have an issue, and you need some escalation or some help, there's always somebody there immediately able to help you, because they're not all tied down dealing with the routine, and the boring check-ins that can be automated. They're handling the issues that need some special attention, without having to service every single individual.
Stacey Papp:
Well, by no means are we hospitality experts, but we're probably just good at staying rather than strategizing. So I'll bring it back to fleet based companies for our last question for you today, is we talked about a lot and you gave us so much information and insights and ideas on really how the navigation of this digital transformation journey begins to look successful for our company, our fleet based company. What one piece of advice would you give to companies looking to transform their fleet and say, "Yes, this is something we need to do. We have a challenge that we know we need a solution to. Where do I start?"
Mark Thomas:
There are no other companies in the industry that have taken their knowledge of digital vehicle control, so keyless access and digital immobilizers, and combined them with an automation platform. So what I would say is that I think a lot of companies, especially these larger Fortune 100 that have multiple different divisions, each with their own internal systems, these companies are scratching their heads wondering, "Whose system do we take, to take over?" Because it does seem like you have to pick one to integrate between business organizations, and realize that they should be talking to a company like Ridecell that can really work with them to help them bring the technology in, in a small scale, pilot an experiment with it, solve some real problems, and then find adjacent problems that the solution can expand into, until we get to the point where they understand that this is a platform that will let them do some dramatic digital transformation initiatives within their companies, without having to retool basically any of their internal and external IT systems.
Stacey Papp:
Mark, I want to thank you so much for all of your information, your expertise in this area. And really, I feel like you gave us a project plan of how to start to step through something that seems very complex, like digital transformation, and boil it down to task based, which I think all of us in the world we live in today consume bullets and task lists better than really long form anything. So thank you again for your insight. This is a topic that truly can transform fleet operations. Like you said earlier, no matter if you have 1,000 vehicles or 100,000 vehicles, whatever industry you're in. So again, I just want to thank you so much for really lending your time and your intelligence on this topic. It was really awesome to have you here.
Mark Thomas:
Thank you, Stacey. It was great chatting.
Stacey Papp:
Absolutely. Until next time, keep moving the world better. Thank you for listening to The Mile Marker podcast. Stay tuned for another episode full of insights and ideas to keep the mobility industry moving forward. In the meantime, follow us on social media, and be sure to like, comment, and share today's episode.