The Future of Automotive with Industry Veteran, Ed Garsten

Join us as we chat with automotive industry veteran and Forbes Contributor, Ed Garsten, as he shares his insights on the changing automotive landscape, from groundbreaking technologies to innovative business models. We have a fun conversation about electric vehicles, autonomous tech, the future of car ownership, and what's ahead in the world of cars. What excites you most about the future of the automotive industry?

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Transcript

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You're listening to the Mile Marker podcast, where we explore trends and innovations in fleet automation and shared mobility, helping fleet based businesses make better informed decisions and achieve full digital transformation.

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Welcome everyone to another episode of the Mile Marker podcast. My name is Angelo Simos. Today's guest is Ed Garston, reporter veteran who has been covering the automotive industry for more than 45 years, spanning broadcast and print journalism and social media. He served as CNN correspondent and bureau chief, national automotive correspondent for the Associated Press, and automotive writer for The Detroit News.

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He also spent some time on the inside, leading Fiat Chrysler's electronic communications group from 2005 to 2016. And now he's, worked contributor, integrated media consultant at Franco PR and hosted the podcast tales from the beach. So welcome and thank you for joining I Angela, hi. Thank you. Thanks so much. It's, it's great to be with you.

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And I really appreciate the invitation. Yeah. We're so happy to have you. You know, when you read all of that, is it kind of like. Wow, I didn't realize you had done so much. It's been a long. Well, I feel, I feel oh, no. No. Right, right. I think it was, you know, the good guy had a pretty fun life.

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Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. And that's not even. That's not even my life before automotive, I did radio and local news out in Arizona and stuff like that, so, yeah. No, it's been it's been fun. And here in my semi-retirement and contributing to Forbes, a few stories a month, the just keeps the gray matter from, turning to jello.

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So it's right. Right. Well, and so after 45 years of covering the automotive industry, I mean, really the amount of change that you've seen, had just been astronomical. what do you. And there's so much change happening now right in the last 2 or 5, ten years. And even you feel like I feel like every week it's hard to keep up with everything that's going on in you.

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Right. what's the most exciting thing happening for you in the industry right now? You know, I think just that the, the pure technology that that's in a vehicle now, I mean, we, we, we call them software defined vehicle. I mean, they're computers on wheels and they can do things and do things by themselves, that we never dreamed of before.

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And I think that's so exciting, and especially because not even talking to the automakers, but I talk a lot to young people and technology startups that are dreaming up these ideas that the OEMs are picking up on. and sometimes, you know, you see, companies like GM, Ford, whatever, they're buying into these companies, too, because they're going, wow, these are great ideas.

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We want these for ourselves. But I think that's the most exciting thing is that it seems like every week, talking to some young, brilliant person that had a great idea and it's coming to fruition and it's showing up in our cars, in one way or another, whether it's through, you know, chip technology, electronic control units or even cybersecurity, which is so important for our cars now.

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so I think that's the most exciting thing is just that the the rate of innovation coming from outside of the your typical, automotive cities. I think it's a great point because I think you're also then seeing, some of the automotive technology. So for let's take, autonomous driving systems. Right. And, you know, billions have been invested in developing those and, you know, we're getting there.

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I think depending on who you ask, will we have a fully autonomous society, you know, in our lifetime? Probably not. But, you know, 100 years in the future, maybe never. Not right. But but the technology is there and it is helping with things like, you know, lane assist and, and there are some, really functional autonomous features.

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But you're seeing that now get into other, industries such as aviation, shipping, you know, some submarine technology. I mean, so now to your point, the lines are blurred, right? It's no longer. Oh, this is an automotive technology. This is, for enterprise technology. It's all kind of converging and coming together. yeah. What what have you seen as far as, like, some of the technology developed for automotive now moving into other, other places?

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Well, things like, I mean, even things as simple as things we take for granted today, like over-the-air updates, right? It's like, wow, you don't have to bring your car into the into the shop. Well, who's who's developing those? I mean, they haven't necessarily come from from Detroit or from, Japan or South Korea or Germany. these are startups that are creating systems, so that you can update your car, remotely and so that they're secure.

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So, so that hackers can't get into these updates and, and do things to your car. I mean, we saw that case several years ago, that rolling Stone put out where hackers took control of, of a Jeep. and now the technology is, is there from outside the auto industry, to make our cars electronically safer, and more secure.

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so stuff like that. I mean, this a company that I've written about several times called, Cerberus. Right. And that's that's that's what they do. Their whole thing is to create a standard so that you can do over the air updates and not get hacked. and to make it easier for the automakers to, to do these updates through a standardized system.

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And yeah, that's nothing that's going to that's going to come out of here. It's going to come from somewhere else where people have that expertise and are thinking, about those sort of things. I mean, even when, I was driving a Cadillac Escalade equipped with GM supercruise. Right. So that's an autonomous system. And the first time I, took it on a freeway and had the, automated lane assist, and I pulled up next to a semi trailer.

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And just for the fun of it, I looked at the guy. I took my hands off the wheel, engaged super cruise, took my hands off the wheel, and looked at this guy in the cab of a trailer who thought I was insane, and then I just sort of touched the blinker. And then the the Escalade pulled over into the right lane in front of, safely in front of the semi trailer with no hands.

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But all that stuff comes from these geniuses, whether they're in Silicon Valley or anywhere in the country or the world, that are coming up with these things that the automakers say, you know, I can I can use this and, create a quality experience, for our customers and have something else to add. And, and really, Angela and, maybe we'll talk about this later, but even these Ada systems that are keeping us safer, through automatic braking and blind spot detection, things like that.

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So, but all that is coming from elsewhere in the universe, right? And when you start to add all these features into a car, it's not, you know. Yes, it's about safety and and, having a better driving experience. But then, you know, the OEM start to think, oh, well, then we can start to add other services into the car, right?

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Yeah. And so now there's all these new business opportunities. And now we're starting to see business models change. Right. And so, you know, not just from a services but now more direct sales, you know, following the Tesla model, subscription car sharing, you know, these kinds of things. So what what's your thought on all of that and how the OEMs are now having to kind of look at the future and say, how are we going to do things a little differently, right.

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Here's, you know, how do we take advantage of all of this? Sure. Well, I mean, just selling vehicles isn't, is is not that's the game anymore, right? It's not it's not enough. It's like, what could we do with these these computers that are transporting people wherever they want to go? so, yeah, I mean, I the first time I ever, interviewed someone from Amazon regarding, you know, internet of Things services that that they can provide for cars, and create these business opportunities, as you say, subscription services are huge, for automakers.

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I mean, that's, that's a form of revenue that they could never, never remember before. I mean, you go all the way back to, I think the original one that I can think of is OnStar and things like that. you know, and I worked, for many versions of Chrysler where they had the Uconnect service, and there was also subscription level, but, now, I mean, it's limitless, of what you can sort of charge for.

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I mean, I hate to say it bluntly, but yeah, they're finding ways for stuff. I mean, look, BMW is charging people for heated seats. that didn't go over real well, but you just had you saying, well, we we can do this, so let's give it a shot and see who's going to buy it. and people are I mean, they're finding it.

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It's just like you're streaming services instead of buying the full cable package, you buy services that you want and would enjoy and need. So, yeah, I mean, it's through this technology that all that is, is possible. And automakers are finding that, yeah, this is a, a revenue stream that doesn't necessarily cost a lot of money to provide, does not you don't have that hold on overhead.

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Yeah. Operate from a manufacturing infrastructure. So something you could add into the computational abilities of of a vehicle. So, I think that's, something that they, they're going to push as far as far as you can. I mentioned supercruise as well. That's a subscription service. You can you can have it or you can have it if you don't want to pay for it.

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so customers now have so many options of the capabilities, that they can have in their vehicles if they're willing to pay for it. So I think that's the, the really the key. the key form of extra revenue now for automakers as well as, of course, providing vehicles that people want. But, there's only, you know, only so much that people can pay so and will pay.

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So these are low cost extras where you can you can make more revenue. Right. And what's your thoughts on the changing attitudes of consumers towards car ownership? You know, if you read some reports that, Gen Z doesn't really care about owning a car and so, you know, they're going to just leased a different vehicle every six months.

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So that they kind of always have the latest and greatest. And, or maybe people can't afford, you know, the full purchase of a car. So what are your thoughts on on that and how that is going to also affect how OEMs, sell or lease or, you know, you know, maybe there's a car sharing fleet, maybe it's a subscription, a car subscription.

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I know there's been some mild success, others not so much. You know, it's I don't know who's really cracked the the model on that one. But the subscription model hasn't, hasn't really been all that successful because, I mean, what it comes down to is you're still renting. You're still renting a car, right. and so people aren't really differentiating, between that, you know, it's funny, Angela, Gen Z, people from later studies now are finding that, as they get older, they're finding that now.

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Oh, maybe the convenience of owning a vehicle is. Oh, they're changing their tune. Okay. It's there's no bad. Oh, well, they're they're starting to have families, a little bit later in life than, say, we might have, but, they're finding that, you know, I want to go somewhere now. I need to go somewhere now, the the the child is sick.

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I need to go to urgent care. I can't screw around, you know, calling for Uber or whatever, right? I need to go. I need to run out for milk. so, yeah, they're slowly warming, to the fact that ownership is is something that that's very convenient. Now, when it comes to affordability, that's still that's still a problem.

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Now, we've seen affordability just this year, the affordability average transaction price now has come down from its record of 50 grand. but that's because automakers now are starting to understand that, yes, they're making most of their profit from big pickup trucks and full size SUVs and full featured SUVs. But they need now to step back and bring back into their product line the levels that they, they took away, and also add more incentives and, and make it possible for people to, to enter the market that couldn't be bought.

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You know, they had to pull back on incentives. And, during Covid when production was low and they didn't have any to sell, but now they do. and they're finding that, yeah, if they want people to come back into the market, they've got to create the financing and the cash back on the hood that they were offering, before the pandemic.

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And we had a record sales in the country of over 17 million vehicles. So, it's starting to come back around. and I think you're seeing, automakers now considering, bringing smaller or at least, more affordable vehicles back into their product line. One then there's also the balance of and still producing Ice vehicles that are affordable and then introducing affordable EV models.

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Right. You know, because now you have this dynamic of well, the EV hype is sort of slow down. Right. And then there's a lot of, research being done and alternative fuels hydrogen. Right. so it may not be the all electric everywhere, the way some people, predicted, you know, a few years ago. Now, you may there may be some combination now of, electric plug in hybrid, hydrogen, you know, fuel cell, those kinds of things.

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Yeah. so the OEMs are, you know, which way do you go? Like, do you do you make an affordable version of all three? You know, I don't know, what are you hearing from there from OEMs that are trying to figure that out? Well, I think they and I use I use GM as the prime example because they were the ones.

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Oh, we're going to be completely, completely EV and we're going to do this and, you know, and they found out that they miscalculated terribly, especially when they said they were going to take the bolt out of production. And here they were selling what they sell. How many you die, right? Yeah, $100,000 Hummer. Is that how I'm going to become an EV buyer?

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I don't think so. Yeah. you know, the Cadillac, the Lyriq. That's expensive. Then they come up with this 300,000 plus customize. celestiq. Cadillac. And you. What are you thinking? What do you. Who who's buying this stuff? It's a small segment of the population, and they want to take the bolt out of production so they could convert the factory to build pickup trucks.

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Well, you know, they learned it the hard way. It's like people love the bolt they love. But I don't know if you've driven one. There are some I have. Yeah. They're fun to drive. I drove one that had supercruise on, I-75 between Detroit and Toledo and, you know, it was just performed perfectly. and so now, of course, now they're talking about a new generation of both, so that people with a normal income that want to go EV can actually enter that part of the market.

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and you're seeing other automakers as well, creating a fuller portfolio of EVs. So people that want to do it don't have to pay such a high premium. I mean, there is a premium, for sure, but they don't have to. There's 100,000 hundred and $20,000 Hummer. What the hell are they thinking? You know, it's crazy. so yeah, I think that that they're trying now and sort of on reset, resetting their portfolio to, see if they can get more people to, to make the switch.

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But still, it's still a tough, still tough sell for some. Yeah. And I think, you're seeing that in with lots of different automakers, right, that, all of these, projections about going all electric, you know, by 2030 and, you know, it's just, you know, I think quickly, we all quickly realize the infrastructure just isn't even there to support it.

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Even if you did want to try and go all the time by 2030, not everyone is going to be able to charge, and our grid can't handle it. So, there were there was, like many new technologies, a lot of hype and a lot of, you know, just like with autonomous technology, oh, we're going to have full self-driving cars, you know, on the road, you know, within the next ten years.

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And I personally don't I don't think that's going to happen, but, no, you know, it's it's, you're talking about affordability, but there's also the reliability, right? So it's like, you know, the Toyota Corolla, the Honda Civic, like, these are cars that people know I can. Good price. It's going to last me forever. If I ever want to resell it, it's going to get a good resale price.

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And I think, right now, I think Tesla really is the only one that has anything close to that as far as reliability, affordability and good resale price. so it's you feel like all the automakers are going to be playing catch up to Tesla just for, for sure. I think so. And, you know, beside it, Tesla having its own culture.

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and that that's it's another thing all by itself. But they do they, they, they do take care of their customers. And the customers do feel special. I know I live in suburban Detroit, about three miles from me. They're building what was once a Barnes and Noble bookstore, I think, before the the bowling alley. They're building this giant.

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This is a giant Tesla service center. Oh, wow. Okay, it's just for Tesla. and it's taken care of. They already have the best recharging, infrastructure in the country. so. Yeah. So, so they're doing it right. But they also have the luxury of only doing being the only ones. Right. Yeah. They're not doing a full line like any of the traditional legacy automakers if you will.

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so, you know, they're a different animal altogether. But when it comes to electric vehicles. Yeah, I mean, they're they're the best. And, sure, they've had their issues with their, you know, autonomous driving system that's not really autonomous. And there have been, unfortunately, some tragedies, regarding that. And they've had their issues as well and growing pains.

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But, you know, Angela, it's not I think people looking at this whole thing with electric vehicles a little, a little skewed because so much of it, so much of it is just being honest with people. And, and educating them in and you see some of this now where people are going. Oh I only get 250 miles on a charge.

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You go, yeah. Well how much do you drive in a day. Normal driving if you're not going on a on a road trip or a trip. Right. You know what. How much how much you get on a tank of gas. You know, in city driving. Absolutely. City. That's what you're getting. I'm sorry, but that's what you're getting. and you could charge up at home.

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You don't even have to go to the gas station for your everyday commute. If you, you know, if you're able to do that, you see the services, that are coming up that are trying to provide, charging for people that live in apartments that don't have the luxury of the garage. so I think you have to be honest with people and, educate them properly and get them in the right mindset to say, okay, yeah, it's a big change.

00;22;15;27 - 00;22;43;06

It's a big change. But for everyday driving, it's not it's not really that different. if you're going to take a long trip. Yeah, it does take more planning. You might have to go out of your way. And that's something that you need to consider. but, you know, until the recharging infrastructure catches up, which, who knows if it'll ever do that.

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But, you know, it's it's hard. People have habits. They they have a comfort level. they don't they don't, they just don't want to change. So, but I think it's just a true honesty with people about what it's really like, what it's really like. And I think the best way to do that is to make these vehicles available and have them experience them right.

00;23;06;27 - 00;23;31;17

And create programs where you can experience an EV, and, and not go through all the hype and all the noise that you see out there. It's just fine to be truthful. So just give people a chance to experience a that's a great point because, you know, it's feels like every day there's conflicting news reports, right, that, you know, EVs can save you money.

00;23;31;17 - 00;24;07;19

They're actually good for the environment. And the next one, they're actually more expensive. They're they're really bad for the environment to produce. I mean, so I think people are just maybe kind of waiting to see where it all plays out or until they're actually forced to to buy, an EV. But your point, if they had an opportunity to, to drive one and really, had somebody to explain to them this is how much you're going to save in gas, this is, you know, listen, if you're if this is your commute, this is what you're it's going to cost you to charge or not charge.

00;24;07;19 - 00;24;24;29

Right? Because if you're not, you know, like, if, So I bought a Volkswagen and we have three years of free charging with Electrify America. I don't know if that's still a deal, but, I mean, that's certainly helped our bottom line quite a bit. Right. when I think about how much we used to pay in gas on a weekly basis.

00;24;25;06 - 00;24;50;00

So I think to your point, it's a it's an excellent point that, just being more transparent with people providing opportunities for people to experience driving electric, and maybe helping them do the math. it could go a long way. And then, you know, I've often said that's really a great role for dealers to play. and I don't know that a lot of them have have taken taking it up on taking that role on.

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But I, you know, that's where people go to look for new cars. Right. So yeah, I don't know if you've had that experience when I, when I worked for the, for the many versions of Chrysler, I mean, one of the things that our marketing department did, we had these activations, in various communities and just brought the full line out there, brought the car like a test vehicle and said, hey, come on, you don't have to go to the dealer and don't feel the pressure.

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And, you know, I have to do any of this stuff. Not going to cost you a nickel. Just come on out and drive the stuff, sit in the seat, feel what it's like to drive this and hopefully our cars will be in your consideration. But I think that's that's the thing. You can't do it at an auto show.

00;25;35;12 - 00;25;54;13

The cars are sitting there. I know in the auto shows they're trying to have some of these outside activations and that that's wonderful. but I think that the OEMs and the dealership networks really need to be much more aggressive in getting people, to have that experience of firsthand experience and see what it's really like and learn what it's really like.

00;25;54;13 - 00;26;21;02

And I think they would you might you might see some, some, some people just never change. But I think you're going to see some of the, the sentiment change. I think it's a great point. I, and I, 100% agree, I, happened to go cold turkey switch from an Ice vehicle to an EV. having never driven an EV before, I just kind of threw caution to the wind and.

00;26;21;04 - 00;26;40;19

And did it. but I can tell you that had I test driven an EV earlier, right? Years before, I probably would have bought an EV much sooner than I did. I just I held off and held off and held off. And to your point, had I experienced that, I probably would have gotten one sooner. And they're so fun to drive.

00;26;40;20 - 00;27;02;25

They are. It's like a souped up golf cart. So you saying you hit the pedal and boom, you're gone. And I mean, what a great rush. so I, I don't have any of these yet. I do still, but, my next one just might I just have I have my cars are new, so I'm not ready to change yet, but, I, I love them, I love them, and,

00;27;02;28 - 00;27;24;23

Yeah. I can't wait to have one of my own. They're really great. before we we wrap up, I wanted to go back to, the OEMs and, you know, new business models that they're exploring and kind of back to the car sharing issue because there are a couple of services that are out there. And I think doing pretty well.

00;27;24;23 - 00;27;51;08

So Stellantis has free to move. Toyota has their Kinto brand. and then you're also seeing some partnerships with like, Ford and Uber. actually Uber is driving these partnerships. Right? So it's Uber with Ford and Otsu. I think you just wrote about that one. do you see those as like their test cases to see how this, this works out?

00;27;51;11 - 00;28;15;25

And then do you see that growing? Do you see other automakers doing something similar? yeah, I do, I do, I do I mean, yeah, I just wrote about the Uber and Otsu partnership, but that they, they announced last week, and it's, it's genius because for one, it makes vehicles available, to people at a low cost.

00;28;16;01 - 00;28;48;04

I think Otsu is eight bucks an hour for new Uber driver. and they can rent it for, I think it's a maximum of 15 hours a day. so it's genius because it gets the vehicles out on the road. Makes money, puts people in the seat of the vehicle now, right. They're paying for their own test drive in effect, and you're creating greater exposure out on the streets for these vehicles.

00;28;48;08 - 00;29;04;09

People can see them. And if you're an Uber customer now, you're riding in an EV and you go, oh, I never own an EV before. It's pretty cool. Tell me about it. And then they get talking with the Uber driver and said, oh, this is fun. You know, this is this, this is how much money I'm saving.

00;29;04;09 - 00;29;32;18

So I think it's, it's an ingenious, marketing ploy, on multiple levels. And I would I would see it spreading because I don't see the downside to it. Well, and then also, if you think about it, not only exposing more riders to EVs, maybe they had never ridden it, ridden in one before, but then, you know, as an Uber driver, let's say they they've rented a couple of different ones.

00;29;32;20 - 00;29;56;14

I really like that one the best. I'm gonna actually purchase one. So it actually might drive some, some purchases. Right. So. Right. very cool. Yeah. I, I could see the, the, attractiveness of a, program like that, even if you're maybe not renting by the hour, but if you have short term leases. yes. You know, that that could be attractive.

00;29;56;14 - 00;30;18;20

So, yeah. You always have a brand new car, right? I mean, it's kind of kind of cool. Sure. I mean, it gets the stuff out there and exposure and use and, experiences and, you know, no amount of advertising is going to get you that right, really, at no cost. So it's, I think it's I think it's just ingenious.

00;30;18;23 - 00;30;56;22

Well, we're just about to wrap up. Is there anything that we, didn't talk about that you think is, kind of, really kind of high on the list of important things to consider in the automotive industry right now. I think that, one thing we're learning, and we learned this through the pandemic, through this whole move to, online and in digital digital sales is that I think that people are going to find that their experience now, buying vehicles is going to be much better because the dealers really went to school on this.

00;30;56;22 - 00;31;19;12

They learned that people don't want to spend three hours in the store and waiting for the finance guy and doing all this and going through hell just to buy a car. And I think that's one of the most positive things to come out of the last few years, is streamline the whole purchasing and financing process. it's a great point process now of buying a car.

00;31;19;15 - 00;31;39;28

People say we're going to do it online and hey, good dealer. Well, that maybe they're not going to hate going to the dealer so much anymore. And the fact is, and you see consumer surveys, people really do want the personal relationship with the dealership. And now it's just not so it's just not so. So brain busting to sit there for three hours.

00;31;40;00 - 00;32;02;17

God, my wife is going away. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a great point. and, you're right. And being able to kind of customize your vehicle online and then really you're just picking up the vehicle at the dealer, and then you get that personalized service and you, you know, and you are taking it back for servicing. But yeah, it's it's a great point.

00;32;02;20 - 00;32;25;19

so thanks for bringing that up. You bet. well, we're going to wrap up with a lightning round to make it fun if you're okay. Okay with that. So that's good. All right. Answers. Just five quick questions. meant to be fun. So what was your dream car as a kid? My dream car? Absolutely. This white convertible Corvette Stingray.

00;32;25;21 - 00;32;44;17

Oh, nice. And I work at this department store in high school. And the security guy who's this ultra cool security guy, he a good looking dude. And he had all checks, you know? And he always have one in his white Corvette Stingray convertible, and he pull out of the parking lot, and I went, I want to be that guy, and I want that car.

00;32;44;19 - 00;33;11;12

And it was it was awesome. That's awesome. And things like that will leave an impression on you as a kid. I can understand that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wanted that car for forever until it just was practically my life, right? Right. okay. Will our society ever be fully electric? I don't think so. I really don't think so.

00;33;11;14 - 00;33;50;04

not because people don't want them. I think that there's still. You're using natural resources to create batteries, and it's not a finite supply, and you still have to provide the energy to create the electricity to charge up these things. so we're still using natural resources, which are not finite. and I think you're going to find that, the world is going to come to see that sooner than later, and say that, you know what?

00;33;50;07 - 00;34;22;15

maybe there's just not enough. I'll just say stuff to go around to power every single vehicle with a battery. Right? yeah. Well, I think there's also just certain applications where. Yeah, electric doesn't make sense. Right? It's just not. Yeah. Not practical. Certain climates is not good for certain climates. Right. and, and the batteries still, I mean, right now there's still a problem with, spontaneous combustion.

00;34;22;17 - 00;34;44;01

so you do have a safety issue in some cases, so. No, I, I don't I don't see it ever being 100% electric. Agreed. What about autonomous? Will we ever be fully autonomous? I don't think so. On that either. And I'll tell you what. This is much simpler. A lot of people just like to drive.

00;34;44;03 - 00;35;11;22

And one of our driving guys I do too I love to drive. I love to drive. I would never want to delegate that to a, but people just love driving. And so I think that will always be conventional type of vehicles. You might have more technology assisting you like we have today, much more technology assisting you, but I don't think we'll ever be 100% autonomous.

00;35;11;22 - 00;35;45;19

No. And what's been the best innovation in the automotive industry that you've seen over the past 20 years? Okay, just 20 years. I was going to say if you went that to what do you get back for there? Sure. I would say the intermittent windshield wiper and the cupholder that squeezes to hold your drink from tipping over. But in the last 20 years, I think for sure, onboard navigation and, Adas systems, the advanced driver assistance systems, for sure.

00;35;45;19 - 00;36;08;19

I mean, the those things have increased, safety so much and probably saved so many lives and injuries, because of the warnings and the automatic braking that they, collision avoidance, they provide. So I think really those two in the last 20 years, I would agree 100%. I thank God for my GPS system every day.

00;36;08;21 - 00;36;42;13

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, finally, would you take a trip to the moon if domestic space travel became a thing? Well, could I use my SkyMiles? I know, okay. And if they give me a cookie along the way. yeah, I would love to. I would love to really just to see the world from a, a unique perspective, and to really understand that we're not alone in this universe because I really don't believe we're alone in this universe.

00;36;42;13 - 00;37;03;24

But, and also, I'd feel lighter because at the. I don't weigh as much. so that'd be nice. but yeah, sure, in a heartbeat, I'd go, wow, you're braver than I am. I'm. Yeah. Scaredy cat. I'm very much a scaredy cat when it comes to that. I know the getting there just seems so rough, you know?

00;37;03;24 - 00;37;22;13

I don't know it. Well, at least you know you wouldn't have to change planes in the middle of the night. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Right? If there's no connecting flight. No. Can I just. You can get there, right? I mean, that's hilarious. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. This has been a really fun conversation. And also, I think enlightening, in many ways.

00;37;22;13 - 00;37;31;10

So thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. Oh thank you Angela. It's been it's been a guess. And I really do appreciate the invitation to fun talking with you. Excellent. Have a great day

00;37;31;10 - 00;37;50;22

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