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Mile Marker
Exploring the Future of Captive Finance (Jeff Paul)
In this episode of the Mile Marker podcast, Jeff Paul of Deloitte discusses the evolving role of OEM captive finance. He explores leasing trends, the impact of digital transformation, and the future of automotive mobility. Topics include the rise of electric vehicles, subscription models, and the integration of AI and telematics data.
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WEBVTT - This file was automatically generated
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You are listening to the Mile Marker Podcast,
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where we explore trends and innovations in fleet automation
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and shared mobility, helping fleet based businesses make
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better informed decisions
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and achieve full digital transformation.
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Welcome everyone to another episode
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of the Mile Marker podcast.
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My name is Angela Simoes,
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and today our guest is Jeff Paul, the leader
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of the automotive captive finance sector
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and managing director at Deloitte Services.
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In this role, Jeff is responsible for Deloitte's diverse
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functional delivery of products
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and services in the captive space.
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He brings more than 35 years
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of experience in the financial services industry
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and has been in Deloitte's financial services practice
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for more than 15 years. Welcome, Jeff.
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Thank you, Angela. And joining us from SEL is EVP
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of Strategic Alliances, Mark Thomas.
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Welcome, Mark.
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Thank you. So, Jeff, for those listeners
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who may not be familiar with captive finance or OEM captives
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and what that means, can you give us a short overview of
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who they are and how they work with automotive OEMs?
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Sure. So the captive finance organizations are financial
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services organizations that are owned
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by the industrial companies.
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So, um, if you think about car manufacturers, uh,
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as an example, um, they have what they call captive arms.
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Their role is to finance
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and lease vehicles, um, for those OEMs.
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Um, they interact with the dealers as well.
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So they not only lend loan and leases at the consumer level.
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So if you go to buy a truck
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or you finance through, through one of these organizations,
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but they also have a commercial business
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where they conduct floor planning for the dealers as well.
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So they, they, um, fund the inventory, they fund mortgages
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for dealerships and, and, um,
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remodels, things of that nature.
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So their job is to be a facilitator
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to help these organizations move more vehicles, um,
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in an economic fashion.
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Okay. So, in my mind, as a consumer, I, I, I'm thinking of
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as I go to buy a car and then when I say yes, I'm gonna buy,
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and they send me to the office to do all the paperwork.
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Is that the captive office, if you will?
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Right. So they're the ones,
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Well, so the, so the dealers in, in the case
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of captive finance for automobiles, let's use
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that example again.
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Um, the lending that that is done through the captives is
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what we call indirect lending.
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So you're actually financing through the dealership itself,
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and then that paper is purchased by the captive.
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Um, and they, they're the ones that actually hold the loan
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or lease after that versus
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what we would call direct lending.
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Uh, large banks, for example, um, where you can go
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to a dealership and you would finance directly, um, with,
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with the banking institution.
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So, um, captives, um, are not necessarily,
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um, assigned every single loaner lease.
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Um, the dealerships are independent businesses.
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They have the ability to, um, push the loaner lease, um,
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in a direction that makes the most sense for the consumer
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and for the dealership as well.
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But typically, the majority of the leases at least, are, um,
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run through the, the OEM captive providers.
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Got it. Now, your team has published some reports
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that talk about how the role
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of the OEM captives is really starting
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to change pretty significantly.
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Um, can you talk about that and what's driving that change?
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Yes. So let me, let me start with a bit
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of a brief background.
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So, um, in 2018,
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we released a study called The Future of Captives.
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And what we were doing was looking at the captive space, um,
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on a global basis, um, to try to predict
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and project what the business would look like by 2030.
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Um, the, the, it was a,
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it was a very well received document, um, uh,
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and it, it, it really served its purpose.
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What we found, however, is that our,
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our predictions were accurate.
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They were directionally correct.
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The, the issue was
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that the market was accelerating faster
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than we had projected.
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So last year, we, uh,
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created a follow on white paper called the Future
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of Automotive Mobility.
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Um, this study was primarily focused on Europe, um,
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the Europe five, we call it, uh, the,
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the five largest markets in Europe and the us.
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And we, um, looked at
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what the captive business, um,
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and mobility business would look like by 2035.
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Um, and so we saw changes in, um,
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the marketplace just from 2018
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when we did the original piece.
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So yes, we did predict that, you know, leasing would
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continue to accelerate, um, that subscriptions would,
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would be, um, uh, a, a large portion of the business,
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and also we would see growth in fleet.
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Um, there are some factors that have, um,
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changed the marketplace, I would say, that are help
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to ex helping to accelerate
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or drive the industry, for example, electric vehicles.
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Um, that, that is, has a big, uh, play in the future
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of automotive mobility.
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We are also seeing the captives take on a more active role
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in providing services.
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Things like insurance, things like payments, ev charging,
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um, products
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and services that will enable the consumer as the, the modes
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of transportation change.
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Um, and, and like we call future mobility, um, as,
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as the new title on, on
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what this industry is going to look like.
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Yeah. And so these scenarios you're describing sound,
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uh, very consumer oriented.
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Yes. Somebody comes and buys a car from a
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dealership, they lease it.
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Uh, so then the captive are involved in there.
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How has their involvement in the B2B value chain, uh,
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changed and grown over time?
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Yes. So Mark, we've seen, um, an uptick on,
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on the B2B side as well, and particularly in fleet.
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Um, we are seeing, um, the, the, the best way
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to sum it up is if you think about vehicles
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that come off lease, um, the, traditionally those vehicles,
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um, the dealers had the opportunity
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to purchase those vehicles when they,
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when they were traded in, or they, they came off lease.
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Uh, if they opted not to purchase those vehicles, then the,
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the, the vehicle was offered
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to a larger dealer network of that brand.
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Um, if they opted not to take it, then the,
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the vehicle ended up in auction.
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And at that point, that vehicle was pretty much gone
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for good with that captive.
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Um, the, the thought is how can,
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how can these organizations take these vehicles,
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repurpose them, um, refurbish them if you would,
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and put them back out into services such as subscription
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and fleet, um,
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and turn those vehicles multiple times instead
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of just financing
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or leasing a vehicle once it, you might be able to finance
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or lease a vehicle three, four times.
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Um, it keeps the vehicle, um, out of, out of the auctions
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and it changes the dynamics from a captive perspective.
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So you are now getting into the asset financing business on
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those, those subsequent terms.
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So it's a, it's a mechanism that can drive brand loyalty,
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um, or, you know, consumers
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that might wanna drive a luxury vehicle.
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Um, they, they might not be able to afford a new one,
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but they can certainly, uh, obtain one
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that has come off lease or, or has been traded in.
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Um, it's an opportunity for, in the B2B world, for some
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of these, these service vehicles that can go hundreds
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of thousands of miles, um, to be reused, repurposed,
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um, for, for multiple terms.
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So we're, we're seeing an uptick on in both sides. Mark.
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So does this mean that the OEM captives are, uh,
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inching into becoming competitors with large FMCs,
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the fleet management companies?
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I, I would say yes, they are.
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Um, um, obviously the, some of the,
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the larger fleet management companies represent all sorts
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of vehicles that they, they might, um, offer
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to be to business customers.
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Um, some of the brands in the, in the US for example,
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don't necessarily have the full line of vehicles
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that those businesses might want or need,
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but I would say it's a safe bet to say
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that they are getting more, um, more into that space
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and I think they'll become, uh,
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bigger players in that space.
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So in one of the reports that you authored,
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you talked about how 50% to 60%
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of future profits may be at stake if mobility providers
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continue their business as usual.
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That sounds like thanks for,
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can you unpack that a bit for us?
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Um, just you've mentioned
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and alluded to
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that when you started talking about these changing business
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models, but, um, love a little bit more elaboration on,
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on how that came to be.
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Yeah, there, there's a couple factors
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marked that, that weigh into it.
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If you, if you take the traditional business model
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where you were financing or leasing a vehicle, like I said
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before, it's, it's kind of one and done.
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If you would, you know, then, then,
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and then the vehicle moved on elsewhere in the,
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in the ecosystem, in this case, it, you now have the ability
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to, um, refinance
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or release that vehicle, like I said, multiple turns.
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But you also have to look at the consumer,
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um, appetite out there.
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And we're seeing more
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and more usage based opportunities, uh, especially with the,
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the younger generation.
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Um, they tell us in our research, we have a,
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a recently released paper, the, um,
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global consumer auto survey, which we,
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we release every year.
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And if you look at the data there, um,
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there's a large portion of the Gen Z um,
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consumers that are interested in subscriptions and,
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and ultimately fleet.
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Um, one of the reasons that they're interested in
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that is they want the latest and greatest technology.
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So what it means is instead of purchasing a vehicle
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and holding onto it for eight years, they would rather pay,
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um, in the subscription or fleet type model.
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Um, it allows them the opportunity to upgrade
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and have access to the, to the most current technology.
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But isn't that kind of fly in the face of, of
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how subscriptions have been modified to work?
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Because subs, you know, a, a subscription for a new car
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is typically cost prohibitive if you're putting
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in at such a short term.
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Whereas the market for subscriptions, that seems to be
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actually feasible because you can keep the monthly payments
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low, even though they're all in is subscriptions
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for a used car.
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You know, one that comes back from lease, uh, six month,
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you know, or open-ended.
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Right. You're absolutely right.
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And, um, what I would say to that is the,
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uh, the cons.
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There's, there's two markets.
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There's the, the folks that will, that will lease
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or finance new cars.
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And what we predict will be happening is there'll be more
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leases than financing.
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We see financing decreasing, right?
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Um, but yes, there are the consumers
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that still want newer technology
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and in a subscription based model, um, they have the ability
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to get a newer vehicle than they would normally have.
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Right? That's, that's one aspect.
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The other thing that's important to them is it's,
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it's bundled, so it includes all of your maintenance, all
251
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of your insurance, um, and that's important to them as well.
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So, I, I don't disagree with you.
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I think you're, you're exactly right.
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And it's, it's a model that will, um, you know,
255
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accommodate the needs of,
256
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of the younger generation from a technology standpoint
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and something that they, they have a, a keen appetite to.
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But I do agree with you.
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So this is a major shift for OEM captives as far as
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they used to manage financial transactions,
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and now you're talking about having to manage vehicles
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and vehicle assets and,
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and turn, turn vehicles, like you said, into second,
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third, maybe fourth leases.
265
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And so that requires new digital systems,
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uh, kind of a new skillset, right?
267
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So how are the captives adjusting to that?
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And then, you know, as Mark's question was, does
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that put them in direct competition
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with fleet management companies?
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If so, I mean, fleet management companies kind
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of have a head start because they've been doing
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this for a long time, right?
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So how do the OEM captives now catch up just
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to be competitive
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or have competitive offers, um, in this realm?
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Uh, it seems like there's a lot of catching up to do here.
278
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There's catching up to do,
279
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but remember too, for example,
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let's take servicing as an example.
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They have dealer networks.
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And so this is an opportunity
283
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to drive more vehicles into the, into the dealers.
284
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Mm-Hmm. So they, they have a footprint,
285
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they have an ecosystem that they, they can leverage now.
286
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They will have to undertake new offerings, new services,
287
00:13:07.775 --> 00:13:09.065
what have you, uh,
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in the marketplace in order to accommodate this.
289
00:13:11.145 --> 00:13:14.785
And they recognize this, this as, you know, as you know, um,
290
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but it's, it's a model that, um,
291
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through the change they believe will yield, um, better,
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better financial results for them.
293
00:13:27.025 --> 00:13:28.525
Did I, did I answer your question, Angela?
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Yeah, I think so maybe we could dig into a little bit
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what you're seeing in terms of, um, are there OEM captives
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that have started down this path and are doing it well,
297
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and what are the changes they have made as far
298
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as investments in new technology
299
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or investments in, in new talent?
300
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That, that kind of thing.
301
00:13:46.515 --> 00:13:48.095
Um, because then I'm, I'm gonna have
302
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to ask the AI question, right?
303
00:13:49.725 --> 00:13:53.135
Sure. And if AI is playing a role here to help them, uh,
304
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move into this new world,
305
00:13:55.265 --> 00:13:56.265
Yeah. They, they have,
306
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they have
307
00:13:57.095 --> 00:14:00.235
and continue to make investments, especially in the areas
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of technology with new platforms, consumer focus platforms,
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00:14:04.235 --> 00:14:06.035
both con, you know, consumer
310
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and business platforms, um, that will avail the,
311
00:14:09.735 --> 00:14:13.515
the customers to, um, ease of use, if you would.
312
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Um, they,
313
00:14:15.585 --> 00:14:18.595
they also are looking at leveraging the telematics
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coming off the vehicles.
315
00:14:20.015 --> 00:14:21.795
Um, there, there's a lot of value
316
00:14:21.795 --> 00:14:23.195
that can be derived from that.
317
00:14:23.815 --> 00:14:28.695
Um, and if you, if you think about it, um,
318
00:14:29.785 --> 00:14:33.465
they, they, they also recognize that
319
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this technology is, um, going to be very,
320
00:14:37.785 --> 00:14:40.385
very critical in building loyalty as well.
321
00:14:40.805 --> 00:14:44.465
If, if you're a captive today, you know, you think about,
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00:14:44.885 --> 00:14:48.265
uh, as your competition, um, the banks,
323
00:14:49.015 --> 00:14:50.675
and that, that, that's a perfect example.
324
00:14:50.815 --> 00:14:54.245
So example, you know, today, if I buy a Ford,
325
00:14:55.205 --> 00:14:57.645
I would not finance it through GM Financial
326
00:14:57.645 --> 00:14:59.205
because that did you, you would go
327
00:14:59.205 --> 00:15:03.565
through Ford Motor Credit, but if I buy a Ford, I,
328
00:15:03.565 --> 00:15:05.805
there's an opportunity that I, I might get the loan,
329
00:15:05.805 --> 00:15:07.605
or at least through a bank, right?
330
00:15:08.025 --> 00:15:10.685
And so, um, a lot of the technology
331
00:15:10.685 --> 00:15:12.765
that we see in the financial services space, and,
332
00:15:12.765 --> 00:15:15.325
and quite candidly, the banks are very,
333
00:15:15.325 --> 00:15:17.405
very progressive when it comes to the technology.
334
00:15:17.755 --> 00:15:21.925
Some of that technology will be leveraged, um, through,
335
00:15:21.925 --> 00:15:23.005
through the captives.
336
00:15:23.225 --> 00:15:26.085
Couple that, with the telematics data that comes
337
00:15:26.085 --> 00:15:29.165
through the vehicles off the OEMs platforms,
338
00:15:29.585 --> 00:15:33.285
it becomes a very powerful tool, Angela, that you now know
339
00:15:33.285 --> 00:15:35.205
where, where the vehicle is going.
340
00:15:35.705 --> 00:15:38.285
Um, you, you know, the driving behavior, um,
341
00:15:38.285 --> 00:15:40.005
that gets into things like insurance.
342
00:15:40.305 --> 00:15:43.125
So an example would be, you know, I have an accident,
343
00:15:43.745 --> 00:15:45.485
the vehicle knows I've had an accident.
344
00:15:45.545 --> 00:15:48.165
It directs you to a local dealer.
345
00:15:48.745 --> 00:15:51.165
Um, there are things you can do with the insurance coverage.
346
00:15:51.185 --> 00:15:52.765
Now you have all the data on the driver,
347
00:15:52.825 --> 00:15:54.445
you might waive deductibles, for example.
348
00:15:54.545 --> 00:15:57.685
Or, you know, there, there's a whole litany of things
349
00:15:57.685 --> 00:16:00.725
that you can do now that also creates an opportunity
350
00:16:00.725 --> 00:16:02.485
to sell more OEM parts to,
351
00:16:02.865 --> 00:16:04.365
for the repairs through the dealer.
352
00:16:04.545 --> 00:16:07.485
So it all kind of feeds upon itself, and,
353
00:16:07.625 --> 00:16:09.885
and it's all derived through technology and,
354
00:16:10.025 --> 00:16:11.685
and technological advancement.
355
00:16:14.445 --> 00:16:17.305
And how do regulations factor into this?
356
00:16:17.845 --> 00:16:21.545
Um, I mean, they're gonna, as business models change, uh,
357
00:16:21.665 --> 00:16:24.865
I imagine there's gonna be evolving regulations, especially
358
00:16:24.865 --> 00:16:28.025
with EVs and, you know, right.
359
00:16:28.025 --> 00:16:30.025
Insurance requirements for EVs and that sort of thing.
360
00:16:30.045 --> 00:16:32.105
So talk about regulation for a little bit.
361
00:16:32.295 --> 00:16:34.385
Yeah. The, the regulation is just now,
362
00:16:34.425 --> 00:16:35.545
I would say, let me back up.
363
00:16:35.585 --> 00:16:38.105
I think the Europeans are further along from a regulatory
364
00:16:38.105 --> 00:16:39.385
standpoint than we are in the us.
365
00:16:39.465 --> 00:16:41.865
I think the regulations are evolving right now,
366
00:16:41.865 --> 00:16:44.985
where we're seeing a lot of the regulatory pressure
367
00:16:45.645 --> 00:16:48.665
is coming in regard to environmental issues.
368
00:16:49.085 --> 00:16:52.105
So we're seeing a, a big focus on everything ESG.
369
00:16:52.565 --> 00:16:55.785
Um, we have the IRA act here in the United States that,
370
00:16:55.975 --> 00:16:58.945
that provides incentives for, for purchasing EVs.
371
00:16:59.205 --> 00:17:01.025
Um, I think we'll continue to see more
372
00:17:01.025 --> 00:17:02.465
and more of that, to be honest with you.
373
00:17:02.485 --> 00:17:06.225
So I think the regulation will, will be a big factor.
374
00:17:06.325 --> 00:17:08.465
And, you know, when we talk about telematics data
375
00:17:08.485 --> 00:17:09.505
and insurance data
376
00:17:09.505 --> 00:17:11.945
and things like that, you know, I don't think it's out
377
00:17:11.945 --> 00:17:13.105
of the realm of possibility
378
00:17:13.135 --> 00:17:15.185
that we will be talking about privacy
379
00:17:15.705 --> 00:17:17.225
concerns before long also.
380
00:17:17.645 --> 00:17:21.425
Um, so it, I think, we'll, we'll continue to see more
381
00:17:21.425 --> 00:17:22.985
and more regulation to be honest with you,
382
00:17:23.045 --> 00:17:24.465
and it'll be interesting where it all goes.
383
00:17:27.275 --> 00:17:29.885
It's a great point about the sustainability factor,
384
00:17:29.885 --> 00:17:32.965
because if, uh, companies are able to
385
00:17:34.085 --> 00:17:38.005
increase the usage of the vehicle assets, which means, um,
386
00:17:38.225 --> 00:17:40.205
you know, they're, they're able to get more use out
387
00:17:40.205 --> 00:17:44.045
of the vehicle and not having to purchase as many vehicles.
388
00:17:44.045 --> 00:17:47.165
And there's, so there's a lot of sustainability, uh, issues
389
00:17:47.165 --> 00:17:50.505
that go along with, with that it's actually better for them
390
00:17:50.565 --> 00:17:52.785
and it helps them achieve their ESG goals.
391
00:17:53.165 --> 00:17:54.785
Is that correct? And then that
392
00:17:54.785 --> 00:17:55.785
Is, that is correct. And, and, and,
393
00:17:55.785 --> 00:17:58.305
and you also have to think about, you know,
394
00:17:58.375 --> 00:18:00.025
what sort of powertrain is it
395
00:18:00.085 --> 00:18:02.185
and what, what are the incentives or are there incentives?
396
00:18:02.385 --> 00:18:03.865
I mean, so, you know, we have ice
397
00:18:03.965 --> 00:18:07.065
and diesel for example, right now that, that are, you know,
398
00:18:07.065 --> 00:18:08.145
primarily what we do,
399
00:18:08.165 --> 00:18:11.985
but you're seeing, um, an increase in hybrid, for example,
400
00:18:12.045 --> 00:18:16.345
you've got ev um, you know, the, the, the, there's testing
401
00:18:16.485 --> 00:18:19.385
and, and some, you know, promise around hydrogen.
402
00:18:19.845 --> 00:18:22.385
So I think what we're going to have is, you know, it,
403
00:18:22.415 --> 00:18:24.345
it's not an either or equation.
404
00:18:25.205 --> 00:18:27.145
Um, it'll, you know, I think we'll have a,
405
00:18:27.225 --> 00:18:28.505
a cross section of all of those.
406
00:18:29.045 --> 00:18:31.945
Um, and with that, I think that we will have a lot
407
00:18:32.085 --> 00:18:34.545
of different regulations, you know,
408
00:18:34.545 --> 00:18:35.705
based upon the powertrain
409
00:18:35.705 --> 00:18:36.985
of the vehicles that we're seeing out there.
410
00:18:38.955 --> 00:18:41.535
And you talked a little bit about how this, uh,
411
00:18:41.555 --> 00:18:44.575
new model seems like it's going to benefit dealers, right?
412
00:18:44.575 --> 00:18:46.575
Because if they're managing services
413
00:18:46.635 --> 00:18:48.935
and they're driving vehicles back to the dealers
414
00:18:48.935 --> 00:18:51.255
to take care of some of these services, um,
415
00:18:51.635 --> 00:18:53.535
but how does it also affect the relationship
416
00:18:53.535 --> 00:18:56.295
between the OEMs and the OEM captives?
417
00:18:56.795 --> 00:18:59.775
Is that ch is that dynamic changing at all?
418
00:19:00.355 --> 00:19:01.495
You know, the, the,
419
00:19:01.495 --> 00:19:03.255
there's been a debate for a number of years.
420
00:19:03.555 --> 00:19:06.935
You know, will we go to a direct model, direct, you know,
421
00:19:06.985 --> 00:19:09.615
sales model similar to what Tesla does, for example.
422
00:19:10.275 --> 00:19:15.055
Um, I, I think from, for the traditional brands,
423
00:19:15.115 --> 00:19:16.975
the dealer networks are well established.
424
00:19:17.095 --> 00:19:18.255
I don't think they're going anywhere.
425
00:19:18.835 --> 00:19:21.335
Um, and I, I do think that there are challenges,
426
00:19:21.335 --> 00:19:23.335
for example, with the direct model.
427
00:19:23.455 --> 00:19:25.695
I mean, an example that I would cite was VIN Fast
428
00:19:25.875 --> 00:19:27.255
coming to the United States.
429
00:19:27.555 --> 00:19:28.895
Um, they were going to,
430
00:19:28.895 --> 00:19:31.335
their initial plan was they were going to, um,
431
00:19:31.965 --> 00:19:35.255
sell vehicles direct, and, and then they since gone out
432
00:19:35.255 --> 00:19:36.695
and they're building a dealer network out.
433
00:19:37.075 --> 00:19:38.975
Um, and, and I think part of the reason for
434
00:19:38.975 --> 00:19:41.895
that is it's not just the sale of the vehicle, it's,
435
00:19:41.965 --> 00:19:44.215
it's the servicing of the vehicle, um,
436
00:19:44.355 --> 00:19:45.775
all the things that go along with it.
437
00:19:45.775 --> 00:19:47.815
Those are the areas the dealers play in today.
438
00:19:48.195 --> 00:19:49.495
And I think there's value in that.
439
00:19:49.555 --> 00:19:52.655
And so I think we'll see the role of the dealer evolve
440
00:19:52.755 --> 00:19:55.175
as well, um, in, in services
441
00:19:55.235 --> 00:19:56.735
and things that they provide to the customer.
442
00:19:59.215 --> 00:20:02.065
Very interesting. Did you have a comment mark?
443
00:20:03.115 --> 00:20:07.165
Yeah. Um, just understanding the, the lifecycle
444
00:20:07.305 --> 00:20:10.165
or the multiple lifecycle management
445
00:20:10.345 --> 00:20:13.485
that's changing the automotive industry, um,
446
00:20:13.765 --> 00:20:16.525
I know Deloitte kind of characterizes it, uh,
447
00:20:16.525 --> 00:20:20.845
in these four categories of sourcing, uh, upfit, uh,
448
00:20:20.865 --> 00:20:23.245
in life service and remarketing.
449
00:20:23.505 --> 00:20:26.845
Mm-Hmm. Which of those categories, uh,
450
00:20:26.905 --> 00:20:30.965
are the OEM captives looking to kind of claim
451
00:20:31.025 --> 00:20:33.925
and establish more of their own beachhead?
452
00:20:34.425 --> 00:20:36.285
Uh, and, you know, how is this, uh,
453
00:20:36.345 --> 00:20:38.325
how is it changing in that?
454
00:20:38.845 --> 00:20:40.165
I think the jury is out on that.
455
00:20:40.445 --> 00:20:42.125
I think that there are, and,
456
00:20:42.145 --> 00:20:45.285
and different captives will play in different spaces.
457
00:20:45.435 --> 00:20:47.445
Some might play in the entire ecosystem.
458
00:20:47.985 --> 00:20:52.245
Others, uh, for example, might opt for niche areas.
459
00:20:52.745 --> 00:20:56.605
Um, so, you know, one, one example that I would cite is, um,
460
00:20:57.385 --> 00:21:00.325
an up and comer, a company called Autonomy here in the
461
00:21:00.325 --> 00:21:03.165
United States, which is a subscription service for EVs.
462
00:21:03.555 --> 00:21:06.365
They have carved out a particular niche, um,
463
00:21:06.365 --> 00:21:08.085
where they wanna play, and they, they see,
464
00:21:08.145 --> 00:21:09.605
you know, upside there.
465
00:21:09.905 --> 00:21:13.085
Um, so I think what we'll see is we'll see captives in
466
00:21:13.085 --> 00:21:15.645
different areas of, of the ecosystem.
467
00:21:16.145 --> 00:21:18.445
Um, and I think we'll see a, a a whole slew
468
00:21:18.445 --> 00:21:21.325
of new players in the, in the space also that will,
469
00:21:21.555 --> 00:21:24.085
that will step up to, to play in this space.
470
00:21:24.265 --> 00:21:26.885
So, you know, you mentioned remarketing.
471
00:21:26.985 --> 00:21:30.445
Um, mark, you know, it, it's not out of the realm
472
00:21:30.465 --> 00:21:32.925
for companies to, to, um,
473
00:21:32.925 --> 00:21:35.565
become significant players in the refurbishment space
474
00:21:35.565 --> 00:21:37.005
of these vehicles when they, when they,
475
00:21:37.005 --> 00:21:38.005
when they're traded in,
476
00:21:38.225 --> 00:21:41.325
or, you know, they, they're up for remarketing purposes.
477
00:21:41.385 --> 00:21:43.805
So there's, there's opportunities like that.
478
00:21:44.145 --> 00:21:46.125
Um, there's the, the whole business
479
00:21:46.125 --> 00:21:47.885
of battery disposal with EVs.
480
00:21:47.965 --> 00:21:51.165
I mean, as, as the technology changes, um,
481
00:21:51.565 --> 00:21:53.565
consumer preferences change, uh,
482
00:21:53.565 --> 00:21:55.685
the way the vehicles used are changed.
483
00:21:56.185 --> 00:21:57.205
Um, I think it's gonna,
484
00:21:57.235 --> 00:21:59.485
it's gonna manifest itself in many different ways.
485
00:21:59.495 --> 00:22:02.245
We're gonna see a whole group of new players.
486
00:22:03.295 --> 00:22:05.955
So given the, you mentioned a few of these new players,
487
00:22:06.535 --> 00:22:07.715
do you have any examples
488
00:22:08.015 --> 00:22:10.555
or, uh, citations for how some of the,
489
00:22:10.815 --> 00:22:13.355
the large established automakers have
490
00:22:13.965 --> 00:22:15.835
added innovation to their portfolio?
491
00:22:17.705 --> 00:22:20.605
Um, you know, one that one area,
492
00:22:21.105 --> 00:22:24.925
and it's not unique to one specific captive,
493
00:22:25.185 --> 00:22:28.405
but insurance is an area where, um,
494
00:22:28.555 --> 00:22:30.565
there's significant traction right now.
495
00:22:31.105 --> 00:22:32.245
Um, you know,
496
00:22:32.625 --> 00:22:35.485
either they are building their own insurance capabilities
497
00:22:35.505 --> 00:22:37.605
or they're partnering with other insurance players,
498
00:22:38.145 --> 00:22:41.205
but they see that as a mechanism to, um,
499
00:22:41.665 --> 00:22:43.725
to create additional services to the consumer.
500
00:22:43.865 --> 00:22:46.765
And our research shows that consumers would prefer
501
00:22:46.825 --> 00:22:49.005
to purchase insurance at the point of sale,
502
00:22:49.705 --> 00:22:50.725
um, if they could.
503
00:22:50.865 --> 00:22:52.965
So how do you bring the insurance products
504
00:22:52.965 --> 00:22:54.245
to the consumer at the point of sale
505
00:22:54.345 --> 00:22:55.405
in the dealer, for example?
506
00:22:55.585 --> 00:22:58.365
So those are the things, they're, they're, they're, they're,
507
00:22:58.545 --> 00:23:01.125
you know, looking into payments is another one.
508
00:23:01.225 --> 00:23:04.045
So you have things like EV charging, you have,
509
00:23:04.465 --> 00:23:08.645
you could have shopping services, you have, um, insurance.
510
00:23:08.645 --> 00:23:10.205
There, there, there's a whole number of things.
511
00:23:10.745 --> 00:23:13.405
Um, the captives are looking at the payment space
512
00:23:13.405 --> 00:23:14.725
to say, how do we play in that?
513
00:23:14.925 --> 00:23:17.445
I mean, is there an opportunity to, to
514
00:23:18.105 --> 00:23:20.805
create a new service offering in and around that?
515
00:23:21.545 --> 00:23:23.325
EV charging is another example.
516
00:23:23.505 --> 00:23:26.605
So, you know, should we be building out an EV
517
00:23:26.605 --> 00:23:29.485
infrastructure, uh, for, for these vehicles?
518
00:23:29.485 --> 00:23:31.965
Because that's one of the things we hear from consumers is,
519
00:23:32.665 --> 00:23:36.245
um, kind of creates their apprehension for EVs,
520
00:23:36.245 --> 00:23:37.805
is the infrastructure's not there?
521
00:23:37.905 --> 00:23:40.165
So do I have access to, to chargers,
522
00:23:40.165 --> 00:23:43.285
and is this an opportunity for the, the captives to get into
523
00:23:43.285 --> 00:23:45.005
that space and create new revenue opportunities?
524
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:46.965
So it's, it's kind of all over the board.
525
00:23:48.735 --> 00:23:52.135
I, I'm relating as a EV driver to a lot of
526
00:23:52.135 --> 00:23:55.655
what you're saying because, uh, so when I purchased my
527
00:23:56.215 --> 00:23:58.815
Volkswagen ID four, it came with three years
528
00:23:58.875 --> 00:24:00.535
of free charging from Electrify America.
529
00:24:01.115 --> 00:24:03.775
And while I would really love to trade in the ID four,
530
00:24:03.935 --> 00:24:07.255
I don't wanna lose my, my years of free charging.
531
00:24:08.235 --> 00:24:11.695
So, you know, if there was a way, you know, so the,
532
00:24:11.835 --> 00:24:12.895
the short term lease
533
00:24:12.915 --> 00:24:15.695
or, you know, trading in the car is a very attractive
534
00:24:15.695 --> 00:24:16.775
thing for me, though.
535
00:24:17.035 --> 00:24:18.615
I'm not a a, a Gen Z or Millennium.
536
00:24:18.615 --> 00:24:20.135
I'm a very pro gen expert. Thank you very much.
537
00:24:20.515 --> 00:24:24.735
Um, uh, but again, I don't wanna lose that,
538
00:24:25.365 --> 00:24:26.375
that free charging.
539
00:24:26.685 --> 00:24:28.375
Also, we have a really good insurance rate
540
00:24:28.375 --> 00:24:31.935
through our credit union, so I'm relating a lot to
541
00:24:31.935 --> 00:24:35.615
what you're saying, whereas if the models could be, uh,
542
00:24:35.965 --> 00:24:38.335
changed and I wouldn't lose some of those things,
543
00:24:38.405 --> 00:24:42.895
even if I did trade in my, my ev for another one, um,
544
00:24:43.565 --> 00:24:44.735
that would be very attractive.
545
00:24:44.955 --> 00:24:46.295
But then again, it's like, how do you,
546
00:24:46.315 --> 00:24:47.615
how do you make the consumers
547
00:24:47.615 --> 00:24:48.695
aware of those kinds of things?
548
00:24:49.235 --> 00:24:52.175
Um, so I, I'm personally just very excited to see
549
00:24:52.175 --> 00:24:55.415
how it's all going to play out, um, so that I can trade my,
550
00:24:55.835 --> 00:24:56.935
my car for a new one.
551
00:24:56.945 --> 00:24:58.135
There you go. That's an idea
552
00:24:58.235 --> 00:25:00.335
for brand loyalty for Exactly.
553
00:25:00.805 --> 00:25:02.855
It's like, if you stay with our brand, you'll get
554
00:25:02.855 --> 00:25:04.655
to keep these things grandfathered in.
555
00:25:05.075 --> 00:25:08.695
And, and I'll, and I'll go back to our study, um, I think
556
00:25:08.695 --> 00:25:11.495
what you just demonstrated is, you know, we, we've,
557
00:25:11.495 --> 00:25:13.895
we've gathered a lot of data, we have a lot of, um,
558
00:25:14.755 --> 00:25:17.075
theories if you would, on, on where this is going to go.
559
00:25:17.135 --> 00:25:19.115
But there is a perfect example.
560
00:25:19.285 --> 00:25:21.835
These organizations are gonna have to meet the customers
561
00:25:22.325 --> 00:25:23.515
where they wanna be met
562
00:25:23.515 --> 00:25:26.315
and with the services that they need or want.
563
00:25:26.415 --> 00:25:29.635
And so things like that will spin out of these
564
00:25:30.755 --> 00:25:33.115
existing offerings, Angela, and, and provide opportunity.
565
00:25:33.705 --> 00:25:37.055
Yeah. And, you know, speaking of things that consumers,
566
00:25:37.515 --> 00:25:39.495
uh, want maybe need,
567
00:25:39.515 --> 00:25:42.215
but it sounds like this case is gonna be more of a want,
568
00:25:42.295 --> 00:25:43.975
I think, um, car sharing, right?
569
00:25:43.975 --> 00:25:45.895
And that's an area we haven't really talked about yet.
570
00:25:46.275 --> 00:25:50.375
Um, but that we're seeing, um, companies like, uh, Toyota
571
00:25:50.565 --> 00:25:51.575
with their Kento brand
572
00:25:51.575 --> 00:25:53.335
and Stellantis with their Freedom move brand,
573
00:25:53.395 --> 00:25:57.375
and even Ford with their partnership with Uber and, um,
574
00:25:57.555 --> 00:25:59.175
and Uber making another partnership
575
00:25:59.175 --> 00:26:00.855
with SI think is another company.
576
00:26:01.355 --> 00:26:03.415
Um, we're starting to see that.
577
00:26:03.435 --> 00:26:06.575
So we talked about how the OM captives could, you know,
578
00:26:06.575 --> 00:26:08.655
become direct competitors with FMCs.
579
00:26:09.485 --> 00:26:11.015
They could also become direct competitors
580
00:26:11.015 --> 00:26:12.135
with rental companies.
581
00:26:12.395 --> 00:26:13.495
Are you seeing that as well?
582
00:26:14.245 --> 00:26:15.495
They could. And,
583
00:26:15.515 --> 00:26:17.695
but they also have the opportunity in the,
584
00:26:17.715 --> 00:26:19.655
the remarketing portion that we spoke about
585
00:26:19.955 --> 00:26:23.855
to provide these vehicles into, into that capability,
586
00:26:23.915 --> 00:26:25.375
if you would, in some form or fashion.
587
00:26:25.915 --> 00:26:28.255
So again, I think that will evolve also,
588
00:26:28.255 --> 00:26:31.255
but you're, you're spot on with your, your assessment that,
589
00:26:31.435 --> 00:26:36.175
um, uh, again, it's, that's why we changed it from captive
590
00:26:36.175 --> 00:26:39.575
to mobility because it, you know, the question becomes,
591
00:26:39.715 --> 00:26:42.495
is it just automobiles or is it scooters,
592
00:26:42.635 --> 00:26:45.005
or is it, you know, public transit?
593
00:26:45.285 --> 00:26:49.085
I mean, you know, how, how do you serve the consumer, um,
594
00:26:49.145 --> 00:26:50.765
and help them, um,
595
00:26:53.195 --> 00:26:56.845
help them in their mobility, um, with different offerings
596
00:26:56.845 --> 00:26:58.645
that, that, you know, serve them well?
597
00:26:58.665 --> 00:27:00.845
And it, and it creates an opportunity for you as a business.
598
00:27:01.225 --> 00:27:02.965
So I, I totally agree with you.
599
00:27:04.635 --> 00:27:07.055
So here's another idea. When you, you mentioned scooters.
600
00:27:07.475 --> 00:27:10.175
So my husband drives to the train station,
601
00:27:10.585 --> 00:27:12.375
takes his scoter out
602
00:27:12.395 --> 00:27:14.975
and gets on the train with the scoters so that when he gets
603
00:27:15.035 --> 00:27:17.495
to the city, he works in, he can oo,
604
00:27:17.515 --> 00:27:19.815
he can scooter from the train station to work, right?
605
00:27:20.115 --> 00:27:22.775
But he had to buy the scooters, not a cheap scooter, right?
606
00:27:23.155 --> 00:27:27.335
So if there was a deal where you buy a car, get a scooter,
607
00:27:27.805 --> 00:27:29.975
like that's a very attractive thing for commuters.
608
00:27:30.295 --> 00:27:32.575
I think it's, uh, so there and another idea.
609
00:27:33.605 --> 00:27:35.775
Nope. You, you're absolutely right. And, and,
610
00:27:35.775 --> 00:27:39.775
and similar to that, if you think about ev it's not so you,
611
00:27:39.835 --> 00:27:43.295
you go to purchase your, your electric vehicle, well,
612
00:27:43.355 --> 00:27:44.975
you also need a charger at home.
613
00:27:45.925 --> 00:27:50.345
So, you know, uh, how do I help the, the consumer finance
614
00:27:50.525 --> 00:27:53.225
or lease a charger and deal with the installation of that?
615
00:27:53.725 --> 00:27:56.385
So that, you know, creates opportunity and access.
616
00:27:57.635 --> 00:28:01.435
Absolutely. Uh, again, we're dealing with that, um,
617
00:28:02.135 --> 00:28:03.235
not only charging at home,
618
00:28:03.375 --> 00:28:05.395
but then how do you offset the energy
619
00:28:05.465 --> 00:28:06.875
consumption at home, right?
620
00:28:07.095 --> 00:28:09.955
If you don't, if you don't have solar, do you now partner
621
00:28:10.025 --> 00:28:11.595
with a, a solar company so
622
00:28:11.595 --> 00:28:13.275
that you can have that conversation?
623
00:28:13.275 --> 00:28:15.515
Right? Yeah. I mean, the areas where it can just kind
624
00:28:15.515 --> 00:28:18.515
of grow and, and partner is really kind of endless.
625
00:28:18.665 --> 00:28:20.155
It's really, it's really exciting.
626
00:28:20.435 --> 00:28:21.995
A lot to figure out, but it's really exciting.
627
00:28:22.735 --> 00:28:26.515
Um, well, this has been, um, really, uh,
628
00:28:27.185 --> 00:28:28.995
very exciting conversation, frankly,
629
00:28:28.995 --> 00:28:30.875
because, you know,
630
00:28:30.875 --> 00:28:33.515
when when new technology introduced is introduced,
631
00:28:33.515 --> 00:28:37.115
or when new business models are introduced, everyone kind
632
00:28:37.115 --> 00:28:38.915
of takes the fear position
633
00:28:38.935 --> 00:28:41.035
and like, oh, how are we gonna, you know,
634
00:28:42.345 --> 00:28:44.635
jobs are gonna go away or this gonna ruin,
635
00:28:44.735 --> 00:28:47.635
but we're talking about a lot of new opportunity
636
00:28:48.065 --> 00:28:50.635
that can be created here, which is very exciting, right?
637
00:28:51.175 --> 00:28:55.075
Yes. New rev, new revenue streams, new types of jobs, new,
638
00:28:55.195 --> 00:28:56.875
I mean, it's just all really, really cool.
639
00:28:57.335 --> 00:28:59.395
Um, your initial projections
640
00:28:59.415 --> 00:29:02.995
or your initial report talked about, um, you know,
641
00:29:02.995 --> 00:29:04.715
what things will look like in 2035,
642
00:29:04.815 --> 00:29:06.955
but it's looking like it's not gonna take that long.
643
00:29:07.455 --> 00:29:09.555
So what are your new projections?
644
00:29:09.785 --> 00:29:11.715
What are you seeing in the next like three
645
00:29:11.715 --> 00:29:12.755
years, two, three years?
646
00:29:13.295 --> 00:29:15.355
You know, it's, it's interesting. It ebbs and flows.
647
00:29:15.495 --> 00:29:17.995
Um, so what I would tell you is, um,
648
00:29:19.365 --> 00:29:22.005
I don't know when we will have to dust this off and, and,
649
00:29:22.385 --> 00:29:24.405
and update it again, to be honest with you,
650
00:29:24.405 --> 00:29:26.325
because like I said before, it is moving so quickly,
651
00:29:26.945 --> 00:29:29.205
but there's also a lot of dynamics at play here.
652
00:29:29.225 --> 00:29:31.805
So, for example, when we did the study, you know,
653
00:29:32.025 --> 00:29:33.405
ev seemed to be on a tear.
654
00:29:33.435 --> 00:29:36.445
Well, that's seemed to take a pause as of late, right?
655
00:29:36.945 --> 00:29:39.445
Um, and that's because of a number of factors.
656
00:29:39.665 --> 00:29:42.405
So like I said, it's gonna, it's going to ebb and flow.
657
00:29:42.665 --> 00:29:45.245
Um, you know, we, we contemplated hybrids
658
00:29:45.245 --> 00:29:46.245
as an example a little bit,
659
00:29:46.245 --> 00:29:49.485
but hybrids seem to be growing in popularity right now.
660
00:29:49.665 --> 00:29:52.805
So again, I I, I think on a macro level,
661
00:29:53.005 --> 00:29:54.565
I think directionally we're, we're correct.
662
00:29:54.565 --> 00:29:57.405
We'll stay the course for the, for foreseeable future,
663
00:29:57.705 --> 00:30:01.165
but I think we will be in a position that we're gonna have
664
00:30:01.165 --> 00:30:02.445
to go back out and update it again.
665
00:30:02.445 --> 00:30:05.325
It's just because the technology is, is moving so quickly.
666
00:30:05.385 --> 00:30:06.845
You, you know, you're, you're dealing
667
00:30:06.845 --> 00:30:08.485
with things like autonomous vehicles.
668
00:30:08.985 --> 00:30:10.805
Um, you're, you, you mentioned AI
669
00:30:10.805 --> 00:30:14.485
before, ai, where does that play in all of this space, uh,
670
00:30:14.545 --> 00:30:17.205
in, especially within the vehicle, right?
671
00:30:17.505 --> 00:30:21.005
Um, what happens to consumer, um, sentiment
672
00:30:21.005 --> 00:30:22.725
and consumer demand, right?
673
00:30:22.925 --> 00:30:25.845
I mean, on, on, on these, on the, not only the new,
674
00:30:25.845 --> 00:30:28.325
but the, the, the remarketed vehicles.
675
00:30:28.345 --> 00:30:30.285
So, um, it's, it's a moving target.
676
00:30:31.835 --> 00:30:33.355
Absolutely. And thank you for reminding me about the
677
00:30:33.475 --> 00:30:34.795
question that I actually never did ask,
678
00:30:35.155 --> 00:30:36.595
which was the AI question.
679
00:30:37.215 --> 00:30:41.715
Um, are you seeing, um, uh, OEM captives looking into
680
00:30:41.735 --> 00:30:45.715
how AI can help them evolve and, and adopt
681
00:30:45.895 --> 00:30:48.755
or adapt, uh, to these new opportunities?
682
00:30:49.305 --> 00:30:51.635
Yeah, especially in the servicing of their customers.
683
00:30:51.755 --> 00:30:53.715
I mean, did they have been using forms
684
00:30:53.775 --> 00:30:55.875
of AI for a number of years?
685
00:30:56.385 --> 00:30:58.795
It's just that the technology is changing so rapidly
686
00:30:58.975 --> 00:31:00.355
and it's, it's more accessible.
687
00:31:00.835 --> 00:31:04.315
I think you'll continue to see more use of AI in, in,
688
00:31:04.375 --> 00:31:07.635
in the customer focused areas of the, of the captives.
689
00:31:07.975 --> 00:31:10.595
Um, I think that will make them more proactive
690
00:31:10.695 --> 00:31:12.435
and more nimble, um, and,
691
00:31:12.495 --> 00:31:15.955
and better able to serve the consumers, quite frankly, um,
692
00:31:16.655 --> 00:31:18.435
to, to meet their demands, right?
693
00:31:18.435 --> 00:31:20.635
Because they'll have, they'll have access to the data,
694
00:31:20.745 --> 00:31:21.955
like the telematics data.
695
00:31:22.345 --> 00:31:24.715
They can, they can then do things with that data
696
00:31:24.715 --> 00:31:26.355
that they've never been able to do before.
697
00:31:26.535 --> 00:31:29.195
So, um, it's, it's an exciting time. It really is.
698
00:31:29.765 --> 00:31:32.675
Right? Well, and then there's the new telematics data
699
00:31:32.755 --> 00:31:34.915
that's going to exist as chat.
700
00:31:35.075 --> 00:31:36.515
GPT goes in cabin
701
00:31:36.775 --> 00:31:39.595
and you're able to, you know, talk to your car
702
00:31:39.655 --> 00:31:41.475
as if they were your personal assistant.
703
00:31:41.475 --> 00:31:44.475
Right? Right. And that, that creates a whole other stream
704
00:31:44.475 --> 00:31:47.955
of data that can feed, uh, new services
705
00:31:48.055 --> 00:31:49.635
and reports and things like that.
706
00:31:49.785 --> 00:31:54.475
Exactly. Excellent. Well, this has been fascinating.
707
00:31:54.495 --> 00:31:57.155
We reserve the right to have you back on when you update the
708
00:31:57.155 --> 00:32:00.715
report so we can find out all the new, new things
709
00:32:00.715 --> 00:32:02.595
that have been happening and where things are going.
710
00:32:02.775 --> 00:32:04.755
So we will definitely be having you back on Jeff.
711
00:32:05.395 --> 00:32:06.695
That'd be great. Look forward to it.
712
00:32:07.355 --> 00:32:11.095
Um, well, we have started wrapping up our episodes
713
00:32:11.095 --> 00:32:12.095
with Lightning Rounds.
714
00:32:12.095 --> 00:32:13.535
Just to end it on a fun note.
715
00:32:13.675 --> 00:32:15.015
Uh, how, what do you think about that?
716
00:32:15.745 --> 00:32:17.655
Let's do It. Let's do it. All right.
717
00:32:17.995 --> 00:32:20.055
So what was your dream car as a kid?
718
00:32:20.825 --> 00:32:24.925
My dream car was a 1973 Porsche nine 11 target.
719
00:32:26.405 --> 00:32:27.575
Nice. I don't even know if
720
00:32:27.575 --> 00:32:28.855
that looks like, but I'm gonna go look it up.
721
00:32:30.215 --> 00:32:32.895
I see. Mark knows what it looks like. I, I, there's been,
722
00:32:33.015 --> 00:32:36.415
I know that's the one that has the oil filler flap on the
723
00:32:36.415 --> 00:32:40.645
outside that people frequently will put gasoline in
724
00:32:40.645 --> 00:32:42.685
and ruin their engines, so, oh, no.
725
00:32:42.825 --> 00:32:45.365
Uh, you might wanna think about a 72.
726
00:32:47.975 --> 00:32:51.015
I have to say, there's been a theme here when we ask the
727
00:32:51.015 --> 00:32:54.975
dream car as a kid, question of like, well, I guess
728
00:32:54.975 --> 00:32:56.455
because I'm, it's as a kid,
729
00:32:56.475 --> 00:33:01.055
but like the old real, like original muscle sports cars,
730
00:33:01.325 --> 00:33:02.495
like the real sexy ones.
731
00:33:02.495 --> 00:33:03.535
Like I love it. It's,
732
00:33:03.535 --> 00:33:05.815
that's been a great little trend to see.
733
00:33:06.315 --> 00:33:08.255
Um, all right. Something a little more modern.
734
00:33:08.365 --> 00:33:11.015
Will we ever be a fully electric society?
735
00:33:11.695 --> 00:33:16.415
I don't believe so. I, I believe that we, we'll hit a, a,
736
00:33:16.595 --> 00:33:19.935
um, inflection point, uh, at, at some point.
737
00:33:20.155 --> 00:33:22.135
And, and like I said earlier, I think it's going
738
00:33:22.135 --> 00:33:26.485
to be a combination of hybrid diesel, ice,
739
00:33:27.285 --> 00:33:29.485
electric, hydrogen, I all across the board.
740
00:33:29.485 --> 00:33:30.925
Obviously the technology's changing.
741
00:33:31.505 --> 00:33:34.005
Um, and that will, that will be a, a driver in this,
742
00:33:34.005 --> 00:33:35.725
but I don't think we'll be fully electric.
743
00:33:37.035 --> 00:33:38.595
I would've to agree. Um,
744
00:33:38.745 --> 00:33:40.635
have you ever ridden in an autonomous car?
745
00:33:41.155 --> 00:33:42.835
I have. You have
746
00:33:43.175 --> 00:33:44.115
It? It's interesting.
747
00:33:44.995 --> 00:33:48.475
I haven't, I'm a little, little, I know Mark has,
748
00:33:48.615 --> 00:33:51.075
but what was your experience Jeff doing that?
749
00:33:51.315 --> 00:33:52.715
I, I think the experience was good.
750
00:33:52.835 --> 00:33:57.515
I, it was, it was the, um, the fear of uncertainty, I guess.
751
00:33:57.785 --> 00:34:00.715
Yeah. Before I, before I was in the vehicle.
752
00:34:00.825 --> 00:34:05.355
It's like, I do, I trust this technology, so, but yes. Yeah.
753
00:34:05.905 --> 00:34:08.675
Very cool. Whiskey vodka or gin
754
00:34:09.045 --> 00:34:10.045
Vodka.
755
00:34:10.735 --> 00:34:13.075
Anyway. Well thank you so much. Uh, Jeff, thank you.
756
00:34:13.075 --> 00:34:14.635
This has been a really fun conversation.
757
00:34:14.895 --> 00:34:16.235
We appreciate the insights.
758
00:34:16.415 --> 00:34:17.675
Uh, it's an exciting time
759
00:34:18.135 --> 00:34:19.795
and we look forward to having you on the show again.
760
00:34:19.925 --> 00:34:20.955
Thank you. Thanks very much.
761
00:34:21.305 --> 00:34:23.955
Have a great day. You too. Bye.
762
00:34:24.095 --> 00:34:25.915
Thanks for listening to the Mile Marker podcast.
763
00:34:26.375 --> 00:34:28.515
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764
00:34:28.605 --> 00:34:30.115
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00:34:30.495 --> 00:34:33.355
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766
00:34:33.355 --> 00:34:35.275
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767
00:34:35.735 --> 00:34:38.115
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768
00:34:38.115 --> 00:34:40.275
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769
00:34:40.275 --> 00:34:43.195
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